Southwest Confirms That Things are Firmly Heading in the Right Direction (Financially, At Least)


To say this has been a year of change for Southwest would be a notable understatement. Partially under its own initiative and largely under the influence of its activist investor Elliott Management, the airline has been furiously working to get out of the dark place where former CEO Gary Kelly left it. Some of the moves are long overdue and welcome while others are, well, let’s just be generous and call them a shock to the system.

Most of these initiatives have been focused on fixing the airline’s anemic revenues, something that improvements in revenue management have already started to impact positively. There really is no question that short-term revenue would increase based on these changes, but there has been a great deal of skepticism about the airline’s ability to execute. The most recent financial guidance suggests that things are indeed going rather well despite the absolute chaos that the federal government brought in Q4.

Southwest had previously said after its Q2 results that it would have earnings before interest and taxes (EBIT) of $600 million to $800 million for the full year. That was largely scoffed at by Wall Street as being likely, and the stock dropped. In fact, JP Morgan analyst Jamie Baker called it “Very Aggressive and Seemingly Unobtainable,” or VASU for short. Despite the unnecessary dig at former American Chief Commercial Officer Vasu Raja, Jamie had a point. It looked like a heavy lift.

Data via Yahoo! Finance

Southwest had limped through the first half of the year with a mostly breakeven proposition. Then in Q3, it did turn positive, but not by all that much. Still, Southwest stuck to its $600 to $800 million guide. Even with another quarter in the books, analysts were not willing to believe that number and put out a consensus well south of that point. The stock dropped again. That being said, everyone did expect Q4 to see big improvements and easily be the best quarter of the year.

After all, Southwest hurt itself when it botched its implementation of Basic Economy in summer, but it has fixed that problem since. Bag fees didn’t even start until the end of May, and it only applied for tickets going forward. So those numbers still haven’t been fully realized, though it’s a whole lot closer now considering when people tend to book. And assigned seats don’t start until January, so we are still far off from getting meaningful seat revenue for extra legroom and all that. In other words, Q4 was going to have to be a true monster in the best way possible despite the initiatives not being ready to fully pay off just yet.

It has not turned out to be quite what Southwest — or any airline — had hoped. Thanks to the impact of the government shutdown as well as higher fuel prices, Southwest has now decreased its projection to $500 million in EBIT for the year. This may not sound good, but in fact, it is quite good and, shock, Wall Street was actually pleased.

Savi Syth with Raymond James called it “positive” and said that this should be about a 14 cent reduction in earnings per share compared to the expectation of 25 cents thanks to fuel and the shutdown. Tom Fitzgerald at TD Cowen said “we were impressed by [Southwest] given [Delta] noted the shutdown only impacted domestic flying….”

The general consensus was that the shutdown was bad, but it was truly a temporary blip. Once things got back to normal, so did booking trends. Southwest sees the same thing, and that’s good news, but for Southwest, this is particularly notable since, as Tom mentioned, the airline is almost entirely domestic and took a greater hit than a carrier with a more diversified network.

Southwest’s stock has responded, now at the highest point it’s been in more than three years. And you’re probably wondering… why am I talking about share price? I don’t usually do that. But for Southwest, this is the most important number that exists right now by far. If the share price goes high enough, Elliott will take its gains and liquidate its holdings. That’s the whole point of the investment. The day that happens will be a huge celebration, because it means the airline can actually run itself instead of being run by money people who don’t care about its long term health. So, keep watching that stock….

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Brett Avatar

40 responses to “Southwest Confirms That Things are Firmly Heading in the Right Direction (Financially, At Least)”

  1. Mr. Eric Avatar
    Mr. Eric

    From a revenue generating perspective, there was always a lot of low hanging fruit for Southwest. I’d still love to see them introduce a true first/business class product. It would be successful in today’s travel environment.

    1. Jason Avatar
      Jason

      Rumors have it with the EML seats booking already surpassing WN original expectations they are pulling the trigger on bigger seats.
      The not so secret “speculation “ has the new 2×2 Big front “LUV Seating” coming with the arrival of the MAX7.
      The 20 something already built aircraft will have its current seats removed and replaced with its new seating.
      Once the certifications is complete all the new MAX7 deliveries will arrive with the new seating in the estimated 4th quarter of 2026 early 2027.

      Many spectate those 20 something Aircraft that are ETOPS capable will be used to replace the MAX8 ETOPS in Hawaii and or used to Add new Western European destinations from the East Coast.

      With the ULCC adding First class WN is already behind the industry curve yet again with the introduction of EML seats.

      More evolution is definitely coming the question is how quickly can WN execute the changes.
      Elliot Did one great thing for WN it forced them to make speedy changes vs BJ original slowly planned timeline.

      1. Tim Dunn Avatar
        Tim Dunn

        I believe Jason is spot on.

        It was simply a transition step for WN to spread out the economy seats they already have in order to create the extra legroom section. Adding a LUV seating section requires ordering new seats which takes time for an airline as large as WN.

        They are very likely moving to a full legacy/global model with widebodies – an order could come as soon as they confirm to Wall Street that what they are doing is working.

        WN has to change customer expectations but the sheer size of their network gives them the same advantages that the big 3 have.

        A lot of people will be surprised at what WN looks like in 2030. Elliott might turn out to be the best kick in the pants WN never wanted.

        1. 1990 Avatar
          1990

          Tim, pipe dream; no way WN does widebodies. Only reason AS got ’em was thanks to Hawaiian. Europe isn’t happening either.

          1. Tim Dunn Avatar
            Tim Dunn

            I will take the over on WN acquiring widebodies along w/ a second narrowbody within the next 5 years.

            and I do believe they can support widebody transoceanic ops from both coasts as well as their interior US “hubs” including BNA, DEN and other well-developed “hubs.”

            The last 2 years and Elliott’s involvement has taught them they must have a network and fleet that supports premium revenue if they want to get premium revenue. WN is getting there much quicker than any other airline made a strategic transformation. Remember that at deregulation almost 50 years ago, AA, DL and UA were all predominantly domestic airlines.

            WN has to incrementally add “up” not unlike what AS is doing; the difference is that WN has no transoceanic competitor at most of its “hubs” in contrast to AS.

            and AS acquired HA in order to get the widebodies in order to do longhaul international and not the other way around. AS recognized that the way to compete with DL is to duplicate what DL has…. the question will be if AS can really duplicate and surpass what DL has internationally from SEA and if SEA will become a true two carrier hub.

            1. Common Sense Avatar
              Common Sense

              Interesting thoughts, and you may actually be right.

      2. Paper Boarding Pass Avatar
        Paper Boarding Pass

        I can see the domestic 1st class and paying for assigned seating as the topic of Jesus Jetway and the accompanying Twelve Disciples has been well covered on various websites.

        However, TALT service is very tricky!
        First, current MAX airframes can reach Iceland, but not the British Isles nor the Continent without a fuel stop.
        Even if WN acquires LR or XLR equipment, no guarantee of success. Also, widebody aircraft are very expensive. Something AS will learn very soon via the HA B787.
        JetBlue made noises about it Euro service. Yet, rumors indicate it has been partially successful. Also, each slot gained at the big Euro airports have been a cat fight. Alaska only has LHR access via leased slots from AA. It too will need to slug it out to get a permanent seat at the LHR & AMS table.
        For now, best for WN to stick to North America, the Caribbean, Hawaii, and South America. Both TALT & TPAC are very, very expensive and no guarantee of return of investment.

        1. Jason Avatar
          Jason

          Norwegian Airlines Made it to a plethora European cities with a NG 7 37–800ETOPS. With 15 more seats on each aircraft than WN current 175 layout. Granted BWI further south than the where Norwegian Airlines flew from. So that would limit WN accessibility to 5 to 6 destinations with the MAX8. But the projected Range of the MAX7 is eliminates that drawl back.
          The failure for Norwegian they had zero loyalty in the US while WN the biggest US domestic airline so they have a huge passenger base to fill the planes with. JetBlue doing it with 75% less Us passengers base that Southwest so they should do just fine when it starts.

  2. Angry Bob Crandall Avatar
    Angry Bob Crandall

    Southwest, no matter how hard they try, will always be known as the “Official Airline of Ma & Pa Kettle”. United, American and Delta position themselves as full-service global carriers – they fly internationally, offer premium cabins, have hub-and-spoke networks at major airports, and provide the amenities business travelers expect like lounges, lie-flat seats, and alliance partnerships.
    Southwest built its brand around being the scrappy, no-frills alternative with lower fares. Their whole identity is “we’re not pretentious.” How do you change the mindset that has been around for 60+ years?

    1. Mr Eric Avatar
      Mr Eric

      You make this comment as if UA, AA, DL were international full service hub and spoke international carriers with lie flat seat since their inception in the 20’s, 30’s or 40’s.

      All companies that have been around this long have evolved in some way, shape, or form. This is no different than the transition Southwest is going through now.

      1. Angry Bob Crandall Avatar
        Angry Bob Crandall

        I disagree.

        The passenger mentality differences between Southwest and major legacy carriers (American, Delta, United) are pretty stark and shaped by each airline’s business model:
        Southwest passengers tend to:

        They used to be more price-focused and value-oriented – they’d often choose Southwest explicitly to save money
        Accept fewer frills as part of the deal – they knew what they signed up for with no assigned seats, basic service, no meals
        Have a more casual, relaxed attitude – Southwest’s culture encourages this informality
        Be more forgiving of service quirks because expectations are calibrated lower
        Engage more during boarding (the open seating scramble creates a weird social dynamic)
        Feel less entitled to premium treatment since they’re not paying premium prices

        Legacy carrier passengers tend to:

        Have higher service expectations, especially in premium cabins
        Be more status-conscious – elite tiers matter enormously and create hierarchy
        Feel more entitled to specific amenities they’ve “earned” or paid for
        Be more demanding when things go wrong, particularly frequent flyers
        Treat air travel more transactionally and less communally
        Have stronger loyalty (or resentment) tied to their accumulated status

        The interesting thing is how Southwest’s egalitarian model – everyone boards the same plane, sits in similar seats, gets treated similarly – creates a fundamentally different psychological contract. There’s no business class passenger glaring at economy, no elite status creating a caste system.

        Legacy carriers have basically trained their frequent flyers to expect preferential treatment, which creates tension and entitlement. Southwest avoided that trap entirely, though their Rapid Rewards members still get earlier boarding positions.

      2. 1990 Avatar
        1990

        Ah, yes, Mr Eric, nice false equivalence by referring to the aviation industry from one hundred years ago. Sheesh.

      3. Bravenav Avatar
        Bravenav

        Look at the transition of Delta from regional Southern carrier with nice folks in the 80’s to global leader today, or WestJet from Canada’s Southwest to Air Canada’s primary competitor, or Frontier from niche carrier with animal tails to ULCC. It doesn’t take long to change public perception.

        1. Ernie Avatar
          Ernie

          WestJet has become a completely unserious competitor to Air Canada thanks to Onex. Their public perception and route network, especially in eastern Canada, is below Porter’s at this point.

          Just take a look at what WS is doing with their “cabin transformation”. They are a LCC now.

    2. stogieguy7 Avatar
      stogieguy7

      AA is basically the carnation of American West, US Airways (nee Allegheny) and a bit of the old AA (of Astrojet fame). None of these were luxurious. In fact, the two legacy carriers that were most known for being somewhat upper class (PanAm and TWA) are no longer with us. Each of the big three came from humbler beginnings, even in my lifetime. DL as mainly a southern airline; United was coast to coast and had Hawaii, but was weak in the northeast and had no international service. And this was in the 70s and early 80s.

      Times change and WN’s changes will result in a different marketing strategy. As long as they get rid of the BS wheelchair regatta and parade of miracles (where dozens magically spring out of wheelchairs – fully recovered) upon arriving at the destination, they’ll do fine.

  3. 1990 Avatar
    1990

    What a shame… was really hoping they’d be punished for harming consumers and workers… it seems, ‘the market’ (ownership class) likes cruelty.

    1. See_Bee Avatar
      See_Bee

      Not sure how they are “harming” consumers or workers here. The cost structure of the industry has risen, and WN isn’t immune. Since they need to earn a return for their shareholders, they have to maintain a reasonable margin. Raising fares through segmentation and implementing bag fees is part of that process

      Your average person isn’t entitled to cheap airfare. It was something they benefitted from for years before costs caught up

      1. 1990 Avatar
        1990

        Yeah, I’ve heard the ‘we’re a business, not a charity’ line, and also, the ‘it’s not personal, it’s just business’ cop out, time after time. It still falls flat. The reality on-the-ground is that long-time loyal customers are harmed and rightfully pissed (it’s not just fares, it’s removing benefits and inclusions that didn’t cost anything, like seats, checked bags, expiring credits); and, as far as layoffs, 15% of corporate, 1,750 people outta jobs, which does nothing but hurt those families and temporarily juices the stock price. You already knew all this, but are just shilling for management. *sigh*

        1. See_Bee Avatar
          See_Bee

          The market is efficient. Those people laid off will find jobs elsewhere in the economy. That’s why the U.S. unemployment number doesn’t grow in perpetuity – those people find jobs

          People are able to find jobs because investors start or grow new companies. Investors need a return on capital to do that

          Do you not expect a return on your money? Should the bank not pay you interest on your savings so they can keep a bloated headcount?

  4. Eric Avatar
    Eric

    For me, the WN value proposition was its network. P2P flying and having connection options in less chaotic outstations like MCI IND or ABQ was a plus vs. being forced thru a megahub with either a 40 minute or 4 hour connection.

    1. MRY-SMF Avatar
      MRY-SMF

      Yes, that’s the main reason I’ve flown them being that I live by what is typically a spoke

      1. 1990 Avatar
        1990

        And if you are a mere ‘spoke’ Southwest’s recent anti-consumer changes are going to cost you, not just on base fare, but on seats, bags, expiring credits. So, you might end up having to take more connections through hubs as a result. Frustrating. They ruined a good thing.

        1. CraigTPA Avatar
          CraigTPA

          OTOH, if you’re a customer who doesn’t check bags, Southwest is now more attractive – those bags that “flew free” were baked into the fares. And now you pay to select a seat or take your chances instead of sitting by the phone at the 24 hour mark to check in and getting something in the mid-Bs anyway, or paying for “Earlybird Boarding” or whatever.

  5. DesertGhost Avatar
    DesertGhost

    I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that airlines, even so-called ULCCs, are learning that offering consumers a choice pays off. I recently heard Scott Kirby observe that the LCC model can work. It’s the ULCC model that can’t.

    1. Oliver Avatar
      Oliver

      Is RyanAir not working? Or are you (or Kirby) talking about the US market specifically.

    2. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      The two most prominent US ULCCs have had just terrible reliability.

      People will forgive you a lot if you get there safely, reliably and with your bag. Frontier and Spirit have been historically pretty bad about that.

      And no one has run the European ULCC playbook in the US to date, which is weird, because it’s been extraordinarily successful in Europe.

      1. Gerry Larkin Avatar
        Gerry Larkin

        I’m glad I’m not the only one wondering why we don’t have a RyanAir copy in the US. I just want a cheap seat with no free beverage, snack, recline, bags, miles, or frills – but I do want reliability. There must be enough cheap Americans like me to make this successful.

      2. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        I think part of the reason we don’t have true European-style LLCs is the way the network of airports has evolved in the US.

        Compare NYC to London. NYC doesn’t have a counterpart to Luton or Stansted, for NYC as soon as you get past the three close-in major airports you’re down to relatively small facilities, with only one of those – ISP – having a good train connection to NYC itself. Our airports in the US are run mainly by local authorites, usually tied to city or county governments or a state agency that grew out of a port authority, and they look at their airports as serving their local area and are relatively uninterested in having them grow to serve nearby major cities. Over the years there have been a few exceptions that had some success in the past (MHT springs to mind back in the day), but it’s a short list.

        Also, as I understand it in Europe some airports offer lower fees to airlines if they use remote stands rather than terminal gates. We don’t really do remote stands in the US, so ULCCs have one less opportunity to reduce expenses.

        Beyond airports, Americans also have less interest in onboard purchases once you go beyond food and drink, and the scratch-off games some European ULCCs sell are illegal here, so that reduces onboard revenue generation potential.

        Part of it may also be that Americans, with our smaller vacation allocations and more work expectations, are more hesitant to buy tickets on airlines with LTD schedules. Also, Americans are simply much less likely to buy package holidays than Europeans – not sure why – and a lot of European ULCC activity rotates around those. “Nothing beats a Jet2 holiday!” is a meme that we just don’t have a counterpart to here. Now there is a market for LTD flights and package holidays – that’s what Allegiant is for – but it’s a more limited market than it is in Europe.

        Anyway, those are my first thoughts. I’m sure I’m missing something, though.

        1. Robert Avatar
          Robert

          I think you’re exactly right on numerous points.

          On the part about normalcy of hard stands, Ryanair is so cheap sometimes they don’t even use the bridge, if and when allocated a gate which has one! Several things are intriguing here: (1) that the airport allows them to refuse the airbridge even though it’s already there, which could be because their staff are not qualified to drive it, which incidentally further saves on training costs, (2) that customers are seemingly ok with then walking down stairs, across the tarmac, then up stairs again, with luggage, and (3) that they opt for the in-built forward-stair when buying aircraft.

          For #2, I’ve noticed sometimes that they don’t even pay for a bus when other airlines parked equally-distant from the terminal, do. Of course, only when the aircraft is not too far.

          For #3, this allows them to board and deboard, even when ground crew isn’t fully ready with an air stair. And when ground crew is, they only need one extra air stair for the back.

          I’ve even noticed they don’t use baggage conveyors at some stations, taking advantage of the 737’s relatively lower height. That said, the cargo hold is not a car’s boot, and to didn’t look easy heaving bags in and out.

          Overall, the minimum service they seem to require at a turnaround is surprisingly small. If I could hazard a guess, just power, ice, fuel, stairs, and baggage. True minimum? Maybe just baggage. Actual staff? Maybe four? Two for above the wing, and two for below. I’ve noticed they don’t even require wing walkers much less pushback for some continental stations.

          And it all contributes to how easily they can service new stations and how little they need to pay for on the ground.

    3. DesertGhost Avatar
      DesertGhost

      As I remember it overall, the points that were made by those who replied to my original post were brought up by Scott Kirby, and formed the general thesis of his observation.

  6. Rbar Avatar
    Rbar

    This is a refreshing perspective on a huge 737 operator. Outside of In ‘N Out Burger festivities and airport tours, this is a most favorite Cranky article.

  7. Iahphx Avatar
    Iahphx

    I would be a fan of Southwest’s new business model if they had low costs, but I don’t really understand their model with high costs. Are there enough point-to-point markets not served by the Big Three where they can achieve high enough unit revenues? I’m just not sure they bring enough to the table. From an investment standpoint, I wouldn’t touch this here.

  8. MK03 Avatar
    MK03

    Hey Brett, with the end of the year coming up, it’s almost time for my (our?) favorite post of the year. Just wondering: are Jetstar Asia, Wizz Air Abu Dhabi, and Play going to get their own blurbs instead of being lumped in the Tomb of the Unknown Airline? All three were quite notable failures this year after all. SmartLynx might be a weird case though since they’re an ACMI operator rather than a real airline.

    Actually, looking at the Wikipedia category: while the category is rather sparse (only 28 entries so far this year), several of them were quite notable stories. Blue Islands, for example, became a big deal in the UK and even got reported on by British news outlets.

    1. Brett Avatar

      MK03 – You really care about this post more than anyone! I haven’t made any decisions yet. I put ones that I consider to be Tomb of the Unknown straight away, but anything questionable I just leave in the main area until I decide what to write up.

      1. Dan D Avatar
        Dan D

        How will you handle Hawaiian? It still around but not an independent airline?

        1. Brett Avatar

          Dan – Ownership changes do not count. Hawaiian still exists as an airline brand, so it isn’t included.

  9. Exit Row Seat Avatar
    Exit Row Seat

    @Cranky
    In your last sentence, you infer that Elliott will do a hit and run once the stock rebounds.
    I don’t think so. I suspect Elliot sees a cash cow and will milk dividends in excess of revenue in each quarter till there’s little left like TWA (remember Carl Icahn).
    Other waves of cash are sale-lease backs of jets and/or hangers, selling gates/slots, out sourcing back office operations (especially IT support). Elliott is looking at every level of work for free cash.

    IMHO, the mindset of Elliott is “Cash is King” and all else is irrelevant!!

    1. Brett Avatar

      Exit Row – Only one way to find out, and that’s to wait. But I cannot envision any scenario where they stick around for the long run. That’s not their model. They don’t want to keep their money tied up in a business. They make their money and move on to the next thing.

      1. Rbar Avatar
        Rbar

        TFPM Triple Flag Precious Metals Corp. is a company that Elliott has owned a large portion of and grown for years. It is small scale for them. Southwest needed a copilot. Hollowing out the brand was driven by spreadsheet numbers. Buy the commodity, sell the brand stalled out.

  10. MarylandDavid Avatar
    MarylandDavid

    I’m with Tim Dunn. I think they are inching toward being a legacy-type carrier, and an extension of aircraft types is coming. No one thought they’d ever take part in alliances and now they are up to like four. They might not look exactly like the “big 3” when all is said and done, but I think they’ll look more like that than what they looked like 20+ years ago.

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