What Exactly Is Avelo’s Network Strategy?


There is admittedly much in the world that confuses me, but near the top of that list has been Avelo’s network strategy. What exactly is the plan? After several discussions and some research, I think I get where the airline is heading. Avelo’s recent announcement of flying from its small-city bases to the big cities of Atlanta and Chicago seems to fit this strategy, so that’s a good sign.

The overarching network ideal is basically the opposite of Allegiant. At Allegiant, the airline has long focused on flying people from various small origin airports to big-city destinations with aircraft bases like Las Vegas or Orlando. Avelo, on the other hand, wants to fly people from a few, small origin aircraft base airports like New Haven or Charlotte/Concord to a variety of big destinations.

These, of course, are not the same kind of small airports that Allegiant cares about. Allegiant wants those small airports with very limited service nearby. On top of that, it wants cities that don’t have nonstop service to the big destination it plans to serve. Instead, travelers get stuck with high fares and connections on regional jets until Allegiant steps in. Those kinds of cities don’t work for Avelo’s model.

Instead, Avelo needs secondary airports in bigger cities. It needs to serve airports that have access to a big population center — preferably in a way where those people find the secondary airport more convenient than the primary — but it needs to have a fair number of people around or it doesn’t work. And that is the core of Avelo’s market.

This is not readily apparent at all based on Avelo’s network and history, but it is slowly moving in this direction. Let’s just think about some of the airline’s plans that didn’t fit this strategy:

  • The first Avelo base was Burbank. Yes, it was a secondary airport in a big market, but it had a ton of competition to good-sized cities. So, Avelo had to serve the tiny cities like Pasco and Salem. It abandoned the airport last month.
  • In 2022, Avelo opened an aircraft base at Orlando’s main airport. That seems weird, but it acted more like an Allegiant-style operation there. Now in March it’s down to just other base flying from Orlando to New Haven and the two Wilmingtons.
  • Meanwhile in 2023, Avelo decided to put a base in Las Vegas. Again, that’s weird. It made it until 2025 before being shut down.
  • There was briefly a base in Santa Rosa for about a year starting in 2024. That is actually the kind of airport that would make sense except… it had nonstops to a lot of the most important cities already and Avelo was primarily serving small places, as it did from Burbank. It’s gone now too.
  • Avelo went into Hartford, the primary airport closest to its base in New Haven. That didn’t last long.

All of those are gone now, or appropriately shrunk, but two outliers remain:

  • Avelo opened a base at Raleigh/Durham in 2023. This is no secondary airport, and it still exists today in the system. If we look at March of next year, RDU has flights to smaller cities of Albany, Grand Rapids, and Rochester. It also connects to the big base in New Haven and there is still a Punta Cana leisure flight. So many strategies in one place.
  • March of next year has Wilmington, NC as the airline’s second largest base behind New Haven. This may be a smaller city, but it is not a secondary airport. It is just a market that apparently lacked service to some cities, so Avelo stepped in. It must be pretty happy considering the volume of flights there.

Both of these can help to fuel the New Haven operation by having aircraft that fly up at the right time when space is available since there isn’t room for any more based aircraft there. But you don’t keep these operations just for that. They have to work in some form or another on their own.

So, you can see my confusion here. But the airline is making some progress in this regard. Its only major base is New Haven and that fits this plan perfectly. It’s a secondary airport in a big metro area where the airport is very convenient to a lot of people, and it will serve 27 destinations during spring break next year (as of now). Then there’s Wilmington, Delaware which fits the bill next to Philly and will hit 16 destinations when its third based aircraft arrives in March. The same sort of goes for Concord outside Charlotte, though I don’t think that’s as convenient to as big a swath of the population. It will get its second based aircraft and rise to 10 destinations in March.

Even Lakeland fits this mold. But wait, you say, it’s Florida. That’s a destination. It is, but there is a pretty large population in Polk County which would find Lakeland more convenient, and only some of them live in a swamp. I am not surprised to see a San Juan flight. That should do well. If Lakeland is about the origin, it has a whole lot better chance of success than if it’s trying to be a key destination. (The one exception to that is the announcement of flights from Detroit starting in February. Lakeland is the spring training home of the Detroit Tigers.)

Slowly but surely, those bases are starting to trend more toward big cities. We have the addition of flights to both Atlanta and Chicago/O’Hare from Concord and Wilmington (DE) with Lakeland getting an Atlanta flight too. That is where we should expect to see growth in the future, because it’s really the only thing that might possibly make sense. You can’t connect a small city to another small city and expect success.

With all that in mind, Avelo’s network still looks like quite the hodgepodge of ideas. My sense is that all of these routes exist because the airline went on tangents before. As long as they work, they stay. But if they don’t, I’d expect we will see more of this “secondary airport to big destination growth” in the future. That is where Avelo wants to be, and it’s really the only thing that makes sense.

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Brett Avatar

71 responses to “What Exactly Is Avelo’s Network Strategy?”

  1. Soraya McDonald-Cartier Avatar
    Soraya McDonald-Cartier

    Doesn’t Avelo exist as an extension of ICE for the sole purpose of rounding up and deporting immigrants in order to do the Trump regime’s bidding? Disgusting government. Even worse airline.

    1. Kevin Avatar
      Kevin

      Sorta. They aren’t government owned, but have shifted a lot of their assets toward operating deportation flights on behalf of ICE.

    2. Eric Morris Avatar
      Eric Morris

      I definitely come to an airline blog to hear caterwauling about topics having nothing to do with the article. Thanks for fulfilling my needs. Get over it.

      On topic, I think it is fascinating what Avelo is trying to accomplish from these smaller cities. But TBD on its success.

      1. David C Avatar
        David C

        You got that right!

      2. See_Bee Avatar
        See_Bee

        It’s so tiring

        1. lindalovesherlace Avatar
          lindalovesherlace

          Yes, it’s so tiring to be unable to pay electricity bills, thanks to skyrocketing energy bills due to the Billionaire-fueled greed that is the AI fantasy (hint: it will come crashing down like the dot-com bubble of 2000), or not able to pay for food, due to SNAP benefits being revoked and used as a political football, or to separate parents from children illegally thanks to a warped vision of America should be. Another hint: America is on a downward spiral. But yes, so tiring for you Maggots.

          1. See_Bee Avatar
            See_Bee

            No, it’s tiring that people have to make EVERYTHING about politics. This article was about network strategy in an aviation blog, but you’re trying to talk about SNAP benefits and using name-calling. You’re hijacking the blog for your agenda, which is pretty selfish and disrespectful

            @Cranky – I realize manually policing this is probably a hassle but commentors like the 2 above are a distraction for the community, especially when they are the first or second comment on the blog. Not sure if you can (ironically to lindalovesherlace’s point) get AI to kill political comments?

            1. Brett Avatar

              See_Bee – It’s annoying, but I’m not going to remove those comments. They aren’t personal attacks or anything like that. If they want to make noise, it’s easy to ignore them.

        2. Emily Avatar
          Emily

          Hope to see Concord/Charlotte to Indianapolis soon. American Airlines from the main airport is expensive. Spirit Airlines gave up on the route.

      3. Emily Avatar
        Emily

        Some of crazies can’t help themselves.

      4. Easy_Money Avatar
        Easy_Money

        You can’t have a complete discussion about Avelo’s strategy without acknowledging that they 1) are able to take more risks than similarly-sized carriers because of their profitable relationship with DHS and 2) have made themselves deeply unpopular in certain liberal markets due to those ties. Politics affects everything. Get over it.

        1. Eric Morris Avatar
          Eric Morris

          Sounds great. Start your own blog.

    3. haolenate Avatar
      haolenate

      wow, TDS much? You won’t want to know which airlines operated deportation flights under Obama or Biden… Avelo just happened to brag publicly about dedicated 3 aircraft to the program.

      Heaven forbid the United States of America wants people to apply for asylum at its embassies in other countries, or heaven forbid – a proper border entry point.

  2. David C Avatar
    David C

    I’m curious what other potential airports similar to New Haven, Wilmington and Conciord are out there?

    McKinney TX (DFW)
    Katy TX area (Houston West)
    Fort Collins/Boulder (Denver)
    Paine Field (seattle)
    Carlsbad CA (san diego)
    What would be Chicago?

    I’m sure more knowledgeable folks can generate a reasonable list.
    Interesting strategy that could have legs if they can keep operational integrity intact.

    1. Angry Bob Crandall Avatar
      Angry Bob Crandall

      I’d like to add Gary/Chicago. Also why the big Orlando airport instead of Sanford?

      1. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        They aren’t trying to build up a major outbound traffic base at MCO like Brett is theorizing they are at LAL. And for much of the market SFB is inconvenient, and Allegiant is well-entrenched there.

      2. Brett Avatar

        Angry Bob – Because that’s the destination. The only way this really works for them is if you have a small city base and a big destination. Lakeland is the origin airport, but MCO is like Chicago or Atlanta, it’s the big destination.

    2. SandyCreek Avatar
      SandyCreek

      McKinney can be a promising contender once the airport opens – for a good part of the northern suburbs of Dallas, MKI is not a time disadvantage to DFW, and likely comes with cheaper and easier parking, plus Allegiant isn’t in the Dallas market.

      1. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        True, but I can’t help but think that if McKinney has that much potential Southwest is likely to move in, and probably Allegiant as well. At best, Avelo might get a few routes.

        The lack of Allegiant in the Dallas Metroplex is a legacy of the Wright Amendment and the infamous Five Party Agreement (https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a2ca4f3a-548d-4b22-8137-c152c714611c/Five%20Party%20Agreement.pdf), which limited (and still does, at least for now) the number of gates at Love and formerly bound the City of Fort Worth to oppose efforts to add passenger service at Meacham or Alliance. And DFW is expensive to operate out of.

        As soon as someplace becomes available other than DFW – new terminals (McKinney, maybe Denton, or Fort Worth going ahead with Meacham or Alliance, which seems unlikely) or Dallas being able to add new gates at Love – I suspect Allegiant will come into the market.

        1. John G Avatar
          John G

          DFW isn’t in Allegiant’s wheelhouse.

          They specialize in taking people from smaller cities to vacation spot.

          DFW is neither of those things.

        2. JT8D Avatar
          JT8D

          We love free enterprise in this country – except we really don’t. Which is why we’re overrun with oligopolies.

          And as the shenanigans around Dallas and Ft Worth air service show (and they go back 70 years or more), rigging markets is as American as apple pie. Or at least as Texan as Rotel.

          1. CraigTPA Avatar
            CraigTPA

            True – if Jim Wright hadn’t been majority leader in 1979, the aviation industry in the Metroplex would probably look very different.

            The idea that one representative happens to be in a position of power and can force his ideas on a market is a real problem.

      2. jd Avatar
        jd

        Last year Avelo purportedly signed a letter of intent to operate three flights per day out of McKinney when its commercial facilities open.

    3. O'Hare Is My Second Home Avatar
      O’Hare Is My Second Home

      As said, GYY could be one Chicago substitute. Go the other way from Chicago and you have RFD, which has Allegiant flights. You could serve both with no cannibalization. Both airports have pretty big catchment areas.

    4. Kilroy Avatar
      Kilroy

      I doubt it would ever be allowed simply because of the politics and NIMBY factions (I’m surprised the airport still exists, given that it’s tough to buy a home in communities around it for much less than $1 million), but I’d add KBED (Hanscom Field) in the Boston suburbs to that list. That’s a solid hour from Boston Logan much of the time with traffic, convenient to major highways, and has a lot of population nearby with disposable incomes.

    5. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      Alaska will defend Paine Field strongly. I could theoretically see Avelo adding LTD service from…somewhere…to Paine once they get the E195-E2s, but even then I’m not sure they’d be interested in flights over three hours, doesn’t seem to fit their model from New Haven so far.

      Boulder has small runways, college teams using larger aircraft have to use DEN because WBU simply can’t handle the planes. Not sure if the City would want to spend the money?

      The next alternative for Chicago would either be Gary or Rockford. Allegiant is already at RFD. GYY has been tried before, but it’s poorly positioned for much of the catchment area and both the city and Lake County are below-average income areas, limiting the local outbound potential. But they are improving the passenger terminal facilities and actively seeking tenants, so there’s a possibility there.

      1. Brad Avatar
        Brad

        CraigTPA, Boulder would be a no go for sure, the city is locked in a study/battle with the NIMBYS about even keeping the airport open to 172s – huge noise battle going on and the NIMBYS would prefer to redevelop the airport land for “affordable” housing. I also don’t think they could put in any facilities for commercial operations that would work with the area available.

        As noted elsewhere, Avelo did briefly (8-9 months or so) fly from Ft. Collins/Loveland (FNL) to both BUR and LAS. Claimed that costs were too high and bailed.

        As an aside, some of the CU charters (likely not football but other sports with smaller jets) use BJC for charter operations. Much closer to Boulder than DEN and easy in and out. As an aside, BJC hosts a USFS air tanker fire base with regular flights from BAE-146 and MD87s so they are capable of larger planes.

        1. jd Avatar
          jd

          DEN, as a huge greenfield airport, has tons of capacity and centralized infrastructure to handle demand from places like Boulder and Fort Collins. It’s more than big enough for Denver and surrounding markets. The driving distances might be long, but the travel times are predictable (E-470 doesn’t exactly get jam packed) and everything there is so sprawling that people are used to long drives anyway. There just isn’t pent up demand for secondary airports the way there might be in more populous and constrained regions.

          1. Brad Avatar
            Brad

            Mostly agree, JD, have a friend who lives up in the Fort and he used Avelo at least once when they were there, 10 minutes to an easy park airport versus 75 min to DEN. The north folks have also been impacted by all the I-25 roadwork for the past decade, will be better when the final stretch finishes but it has been rough at times.

            My commute from garage to Terminal West is 35-40 minutes, but the north end of 470 is getting somewhat congested (lot of trucks!) and also has had some construction projects slow things down. They need to add the 3rd lane all the way to I-25 but that will be somewhat painful when they get to it.

            If you were going to pick a secondary airport, CYS might be the choice but just not enough people for any regularity of flights. It would be the bookend for COS but without the mass. Every 5-6 years people get excited when someone starts the rumor of WN coming to CYS and it never pans out.

            BJC hosted JSX for a few years and some of my retired neighbors loved them, but JSX recently relocated to APA so no convenience for north folks with that move, but probably makes some sense being closer to all that south population center.

      2. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        RFD has always been marginal. The demographics just aren’t there for it to be much more than it is. A freight airport is likely its highest and best use at the moment and nothing to be ashamed about.

        (likewise, LAL makes a terrific freight airport)

    6. Steve Betzner Avatar
      Steve Betzner

      Gary-Chicago Airport.

    7. jd Avatar
      jd

      New Haven has a catchment of several million people for whom it’s a genuine PITA to reach the nearest major airports (in NYC). Most of these other places just aren’t comparable.

      1. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        It’s about an hour to BDL from New Haven with no bridges or other NYC-adjacent hassles, so that’s also a limiting factor on HVN’s ability to draw new service.

        Even with that, though, I’m surprised someone hasn’t at least added service from HVN to a hub.

        1. SEAN Avatar
          SEAN

          I recall US Airways/American having such a flight from HVN to PHL at one time.

          1. southbay flier Avatar
            southbay flier

            I flew United on a 737-300 from HVN to ORD in the mid-90’s. Despite being near New Haven, Tweed is a pain to get to. Bradley has better access from the freeway than Tweed.

      2. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        That’s correct, there aren’t very many HVN opportunities out there.

        That’s one part of Avelo’s problem. HVN is so good that you can pretty much serve it any old way, even stupid ways, and it will still work. And Avelo has very much not used HVN to its highest and best uses. It was only when Avelo started throwing obvious losers like MLB at HVN that it started to flame out.

        But then you go elsewhere – ILG, for instance. And it matters a sh*t-ton more how you service ILG. You can’t just throw routes willy-nilly at ILG and expect it to work the way that HVN does. ILG has potential, but you need to take care how you serve it.

        So yeah, there aren’t a lot of sure-fire-winners like HVN out there, but that doesn’t mean you can’t build a business elsewhere if you’re careful. But Avelo wasn’t careful.

    8. Pilotaaron1 Avatar
      Pilotaaron1

      A couple I thought of is Mesa Gateway for Phoenix, Akron/Canton for Cleveland, Toledo for Detroit, Long Island for NYC, Provo for SLC, and Providence for Boston. Some of these may be a stretch. Provo would probably be a no go with Breeze, I was just thinking about other potential airports.

      1. JB14-Hrbek Avatar
        JB14-Hrbek

        Provo Spain?

        1. Pilotaaron1 Avatar
          Pilotaaron1

          Provo Utah for Salt Lake City

            1. Pilotaaron1 Avatar
              Pilotaaron1

              Lol oh my goodness! I have no idea how I missed the reference. Thank you for the laugh. I needed that!

        2. southbay flier Avatar
          southbay flier

          Provo, Utah is where BYU is located. They have a small airport on the edge of Utah Lake. It’s about 45 minutes from SLC airport without traffic. It’s in Utah County, which is the county south of Salt Lake County.

      2. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        There are some obvious losers there. You can’t just say “alternative airport, try that!” (many have taken approach – their bleached bones are all around us).

        Take Toledo. Look where Toledo airport is located and if you give it a few seconds thought you’ll understand why Toledo, as an alternative airport, has always been tough.

        Rough justice, from downtown Toledo to Toledo airport is like 25-30 minutes and you pay a toll.

        Meanwhile, Detroit Metro airport is less than 50 minutes away, no toll, and there quality of service there (including many low cost carriers) is unbelievably better.

        The tradeoff of convenience for price for Toledo airport vs alternatives is poor.

    9. Brad Avatar
      Brad

      David,

      Avelo briefly did fly to Ft. Collins, I had to look up dates, it was Oct 21 to Jun 22 with flights to BUR and LAS. Saw one of their jets on the ground at the airport one time. They didn’t last long in N. Colorado.

      1. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        BUR was misconceived for many reasons, but one of the biggest headwinds it faced was Avelo started a year too early and on the wrong coast relative to Covid recovery. There were still CA restrictions in place when Avelo started. Florida recovered fasted than the west coast, but even there, Avelo would have been better starting in Spring 2022. That one mistake (starting in 2021 rather than 2022) basically cost Avelo its bankroll. Critical error.

        So, its possible the result at FNL might have been different had they started in 2022 rather than 2021. Though, as I said, there were many other reasons why BUR was problematic.

        Breeze made the same mistake. Both Avelo and Breeze were rushing to start and it’s unclear why. You pay an enormous penalty for being early, and far less of a penalty for being late – the risks are hugely asymmetric.

    10. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      Carlsbad is brilliantly located but has a runway too short to be useful for most narrowbodies (and the airport is also physically constrained – I don’t think it’s legal to land aircraft of the 737-size because there’s not sufficient room for them to safely taxi).

      That said, it’s a mystery to me why it wasn’t overrun long ago with E175s on behalf of e.g. United flying to SFO on frequent schedules, allowing United to provide convenience for wealthy NCSD residents who could avoid schlepping down to SAN. You’d think you could get a nice premium for that and it would be a great feeder for UA’s international flights out of SFO.

  3. John G Avatar
    John G

    You left out their strategy of flying to small cities in Venezuela and Central America.

    But at least the passengers on those flights are not in a position to care that there is no in flight service.

  4. CraigTPA Avatar
    CraigTPA

    The “mirror universe Allegiant” theory makes sense, but there are limits to it. There aren’t a lot of cities like New Haven out there, and even in New Haven Breeze has stepped in to snap up several of the “flights to big cities” markets with a better product and the right airplane, the A220. And there’s an inherent limit in growth in those markets in that if the market is stimulated enough one of the majors will step in and at least offer some hub connectivity. If they weren’t concerned about cannibalization of BDL JetBlue might already be looking at seasonal service to a couple of Florida destinations.

    (Yes, Avelo has ordered the E195-E2 but at the current delivery rate they’re not going to see any for a while, and the addition to the fleet is going to be expensive, even if Avelo can swing the financing.)

    As for LAL, there is a potential seasonal market for visitors, but it’s pretty much limited to VFR and snowbirds who have bought in Polk County as the markets that are less swamp-adjacent have gotten more expensive. They get some Orlando traffic, but it’s limited, and even more so to Tam[a or the beaches. As for outbound traffic, there is some but again there’s a natural limit to growth in that how many cities can support even 2-3x/week from LAL given that MCO and TPA have service to just about everywhere. They’re going to be a bottom-feeder, plain and simple.

    Honestly, if they hadn’t chosen New Haven they’d probably have folded already. The Wilmingtons might pan out as well, but then you run into limits. Breeze’s model seems to work better, and Breeze chose the right plane from the start.

    1. v1_rotate Avatar
      v1_rotate

      What big cities has Breeze “stepped in to snap up’ from HVN? Aside from VRB, ORF, and RIC, none of which are big cities, everything they serve from HVN was already served by Avelo. And according to the various blogs that post the revenue data, it doesn’t seem like they are doing particularly well in HVN.

      1. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        Fair point, I think I was lookiong at the wrong airport flight listings and not HVN when I said this. Apologies.

        But that still leaves the question of whether or not Avelo and Breeze can both serve major cities from the same airport (in this case HVN to MCO being the example), given that Breeze has a superior product and Avelo has to compete on price (and, perhaps, punctuality.) At the least, this could limit both airlines’ ability to add frequencies to cities that have the potential to go daily (or even more), at least seasonally.

        Of course, MCO could be a one-off exception, and frankly if the market apperared ready to support a daily (or more) service, given its strategy in the NYC-area airports I’d expect JetBlue to step in, putting Avelo in the bottom-feeder role.

      2. Emily Avatar
        Emily

        Avelo is cooking Breeze in New Haven. Some Breeze load factors are in the 40s from that airport.

    2. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      The problem for LAL, as for most smaller east coast cities, is the very first place you’d want to link it to is NYC, and you can’t because the NYC airports are slot limited and if you have a slot at a NYC airport you use to fly to TPA or MCO you’re not going to shift that airplane to LAL.

      Small city at one end, you want the other end to be as big as possible. And the biggest by far (especially for flights to Florida) is NYC.

      And even someone gifted Avelo a LGA or EWR slot for them to use specifically for LAL, it would be hard just to get attention – the NYC media market is the most expensive in the US.

      [Aside: if NYC airport space was unlimited, a lot of east coast cities, and especially Florida cities, would have air service that, today, do not. If you’re an air service development guy, or if you run an east coast airport and want air service, you should want NYC airports redeveloped to eliminate bottlenecks. That, of course, is unlikely to happen, but people should, at least, understand what it is that structurally stops airports like LAL and MLB from having service. It’s fundamentally the fact there’s no room at the NYC airports.]

      But the bigger issue is what value does LAL add to central/west Florida air service and the answer is – not much. Where do vacationers want to go? Generally not to LAL specifically. If they want to go to the beach, then PIE is better. If they want to go to Disney, then MCO is better (even with all its issues). And from a demographic basis (i.e. ability for LAL to generate its own traffic) LAL’s not great.

      Also, I hear there’s only one rental car provider at LAL. When you go into an airport like LAL, you have to be really careful how you do it, and one thing is you need to ensure that the local rental car provider plays ball. And that means – rates that are no higher than at the other nearby airports and the ability to pick up a car at one airport and drop at another without charge. And all that needs to be locked in before you go into the airport, because once you commit, you’re cooked. Likewise, you need to ensure parking isn’t an issue, etc etc etc.

  5. Emil Avatar
    Emil

    Someone mentioned Gary. That would be great for us Southsiders.

    1. Bill from DC Avatar
      Bill from DC

      MDW is plenty Southside, no?

      1. Emil Avatar
        Emil

        Not for the Southeastsiders! Plus MDW is almost all SWA.

        1. Bill from DC Avatar
          Bill from DC

          You’re right Emil, I should have known better, my father grew up on Avenue C and 112th!

          1. Emil Avatar
            Emil

            108th and Avenue N. Long live the Calumet Beach Inn on 109th and Yukon Moose Cholak!!!

    2. Chris Avatar
      Chris

      Can NW Indiana make Gary work for the airline, though? Allegiant tried and pulled out in 2013. I know NW Indiana has experienced a lot of strong growth over the past few years but I’m curious if they are at the point where they can support Avelo service. Gary’s always confounded me as the airport’s pretty conveniently located, has sufficient runway length, etc. But the Wikipedia page on Gary’s PAX service reads like a who’s who of failed airlines – Pan Am, Southeast Airlines, SkyValue Airlines, Skybus Airlines and Hooters Air.

    3. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      Gary has a lot of issues. There’s the demographics of the surrounding area, which are pretty disastrous. And then there’s access.

      I-90 goes right on the southern border of GYY, but check the routes Google maps wants to send you and whether you’re coming from east or west, they direct you to surface streets, and those are NOT surface streets you want to travel. The roads around Newark are pretty sketchy, these are worse.

      GYY is one of those airports that seems like one day ought to be something, and maybe can, but needs a *lot* of infrastructure attention to make it what it one day could be. It needs its own exit from I-90 at the very least.

      GYY needs the kind of infrastructure investment we don’t do in this country any more because it’s too expensive. Not that it should be expensive, but we’ve elevated rent-seeking in this country to a high art, and you can’t so much as move a shovel of earth without a dozen parties seeking their share.

  6. Bill from DC Avatar
    Bill from DC

    Doesn’t Breeze utilize a similar strategy albeit more successfully and with a better overall product?

    1. Brett Avatar

      Bill – It’s not the same strategy. Breeze’s idea is to connect the dots between airports that need a smaller airplane. It’s more mid-size to mid-size or mid-size to small-size, something like that.

      1. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        Breeze is kind of a generalization of Allegiant. It’s taking Allegiant into smaller cities and connecting dots that Allegiant thought too small (or not directly related to leisure travel).

        There appears to have been a change in behavior at Avelo. As usual, it’s hard to exactly put your finger on it, because Avelo has never cleanly defined their business (and that’s part of the problem – if you don’t know where you’re going, you won’t get there). But it does seem different than this time last year.

        Whether it’s different enough? Who knows. They better make it count – they seem like a cat on it’s nineth (or maybe even 10th) life.

  7. Bill from DC Avatar
    Bill from DC

    For cities needing service at an alternate airport, how about Atlanta? I know it would piss off the widget something fierce but there are 6,000 foot runways at two airports that could easily slap another 2k feet on them.

    – Cobb County International Airport – McCollum Field (RYY): 6,295 ft.

    – Gwinnett County Airport – Briscoe Field (LZU): 6,000 ft

    ATL is south of downtown. Each of these counties is north of the city, home to a wealthy suburban population and at the far end of the county (Kennesaw and Lawrenceville, respectively). At the best of times, each airport is at least 45 minutes from ATL, probably more like an hour to 90 minutes with traffic.

    No I didn’t mention PDK because it’s not far enough outside the city, it’s actually inside the main Atlanta beltway.

    I’ll also mention Manassas Virginia (MNZ) because I know they are contemplating building a px terminal. This doesn’t make any sense to me primarily because IAD is 25 miles north, they have a nearly identical catchment area and IAD is not capacity restricted in any way.

    Nevertheless this is a go with area governments and Avports spending up to $125 million with px service able to commence in early 2027. So like it or not, they’re on this list too!

    1. Bill from DC Avatar
      Bill from DC

      Missed my edit window but the MNZ passenger project is no longer just being considered, it’s definitely a go, to the tune of $75-125 million including a px terminal, new tower, runway and infrastructure improvements, etc.

      1. abcdefg Avatar
        abcdefg

        What a waste of money that should just be invested in IAD.

        1. Bill from DC Avatar
          Bill from DC

          Agreed. I think it’s absurd. Attributable largely to internecine local government rivalries (IAD is in Loudon County and borders Fairfax, Manassas is in Prince William county). Plus Avports must think they can make some money so they’re dumping money into it. I’m ok with that but the taxpayer money is a complete waste.

    2. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      Are those (other than MNZ) Part 139 airports? If not, then it will be hard for this to happen. Airports do still upgrade to Part 139 (like the airport in coastal Alabama that did it recently) but in/near major metros, there’s not a lot of love for adding commercial service where none exists already.

      And specifically in Atlanta, Delta will pull out all the stops to prevent a reasonable alternative airport from developing. They’ve done it before.

      MNZ – that one might work. Is IAD easy to use? It is easy to access? DC traffic is a bear. And IAD is a $13 CPE and going up to $20, so there’s money to be saved.

      It’s pretty simple – travel is all about convenience, price and to some degree, comfort. Convenience is obviously related to end-to-end travel time, but it’s not the same – people will choose an airport further away if the convenience of a better schedule outweighs the inconvenience of a longer drive. If you’re traveling for business and someone else is picking up the tab, your trade off of convenience for price is different than if you’re spending your own dime.

      Why does HVN work? Convenience, convenience, convenience + low costs…

      From a convenience standpoint, IAD is challenged more than you might think. There’s no bridge on the Potomac between MD and VA between the beltway and that little bridge to the northwest of IAD (point of rocks?) It’s one of the most notable infrastructure features of the DC area and one that helps explain why IAD has never been all that, because its catchment is far more modest than you might expect. VA-28 should be extended over the river to the north. I believe there’s land reserved for that, but I’m not going to hold my breath. I think MD is very much against it. Should have been done long ago.

  8. Ken Velten Avatar
    Ken Velten

    Avelo’s biggest problem is that in most markets it does not fly daily and only once a day. If your flight is cancelled you are stuck for 3 or 4 days or you have to book an alternate carrier. You will probably get a refund from Avelo but the alternate is much more expensive. So if service twice a week works for you, Avelo is a good alternate.

    1. Bill from DC Avatar
      Bill from DC

      Yeah but neither does Breeze or Allegiant, right?

      1. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        There are five or six airlines that, to one degree or another, are chasing this less-than-daily leisure model. You’d think that one of them would clue in and realize that, however good an idea it was when Allegient pioneered it 20+ years ago, they’re now scraping the bottom of the barrel.

        Lack of innovation in this industry is just astounding. Monkey see, monkey do.

  9. southbay flier Avatar
    southbay flier

    It’s a business model that makes no sense to me. Usually when I fly somewhere, I want to be able to choose from multiple flights a day from my origin to my destination even if some or all of them involve connecting. And if something goes wrong, want to make sure that I can get back quickly. I guess that’s why I stick to Delta (United, AA, and Southwest all work too).

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