Spirit’s Survival Hopes Dim After Posting Awful Q2 Results


The roller coaster ride that has defined Spirit over the last five years appears to be coming to an end. After pioneering the ultra low cost carrier (ULCC) model in the US, the airline rose quickly and then fell hard. It was never able to turn a profit after the pandemic, and it filed for bankruptcy protection. It exited bankruptcy in March, and now that the airline is a public company again, it has very quietly posted its Q2 results. If you didn’t think it would be possible to go bankrupt, come out, and somehow post even worse results… well, you were wrong.

By the numbers, there wasn’t much to say that’s positive, though we can try. The airline’s total unit revenue (TRASM) rose 4.8 percent vs Q2 2024, and its revenue per passenger flight segment was up 7 percent from $108.46 to $116.05. That’s as close as we can get to having good news here.

Now, the bad news. Spirit’s capacity plunged 23.9 percent year-over-year on 22 percent fewer departures. If you’re going to shrink that much, you really need to boost revenue to keep up with cost creep. Here’s where things start to get wild.

Remember that the unit revenue rose 4.8 percent, right? Unit costs were up about double that. And it was only that good because there was a big fuel-price benefit. Unit costs excluding fuel and special items was up an eye-popping 19.2 percent.

The cost problem is very real when you shrink, and Spirit’s commercial plan makes that even worse. Spirit ended Q2 with 215 aircraft which is up from the 210 a year ago. There are always Pratt & Whitney issues to consider that may have grounded different numbers of aircraft in each quarter, but that hardly explains this. What really happened is Spirit just stopped flying airplanes at off-peak times. Its aircraft utilization tanked 26.4 percent to a miserable 7.8 hours per day. That’s good for revenue, but if revenue doesn’t climb more than costs do, you’re out of luck. And those costs… yikes.

Spirit says “The [cost] increase on a per-ASM basis was primarily due to increases in salaries, wages and benefits expense, other operating expense, aircraft rent expense, landing fees and other rents expense, and distribution expense.” It seems like it might have been easier to just list the things that were not up.

When we bring this all together, the airline posted a -18.1 percent operating margin which is significantly worse than last year’s -11.9 percent. Net margin was -24.1 percent. Cash and cash equivalents were down to just over $407 million after burning through almost $250 million in Q2 alone. All of this adds up to the airline being in very serious trouble.

It’s bad enough that Spirit has issued a so-called “going concern” warning in its 10-Q, which is what public companies put out if they think they might not make it through the next 12 months.

Spirit says overcapacity and weak leisure demand in the domestic market have caused big problems. It has been trying to counteract this in several ways, “including the implementation of network and product enhancements, including its Premium Economy travel option, consummation of sale-leaseback transactions related to certain of its owned spare engines, and other discretionary cost reduction strategies, including the pilot furloughs announced in July 2025.”

But then, Spirit says that’s not enough. It has done the math, and it is going to bust through the debt covenants and the requirements of the credit card processor agreement if it doesn’t do more. So it’s basically looking to do a fire sale. Airplanes, real estate, excess gates, cutting fixed costs, and trying to raise more money are all on the table. But if it can’t? Well, then it’s over.

Notably, the credit card processor deal ends at the end of this year, and to renew, the company wants a bigger holdback. In other words, the card company will hold more of Spirit’s money until after travel is complete so that it doesn’t get left holding the bag if Spirit fails. And that is often the death knell for a struggling airline. In conclusion, the airline coldly notes:

Because of the uncertainty of successfully completing the initiatives to comply with the minimum liquidity covenants and of the outcome of discussions with Company stakeholders, management has concluded there is substantial doubt as to the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern within 12 months from the date these financial statements are issued.

Considering these results and the credit card processor deal expiring at year-end, I’d be amazed if the airline made it into 2026. In fact, I don’t see how it can even get that far with the cash burn that it has right now.

It’s hard not to feel for the people at the airline who have gone through so much in the last few years. But that’s the airline business. And there will be opportunity for many to go elsewhere. If Spirit fails, this will at least strengthen the position of other airlines like Frontier, Breeze, JetBlue, and maybe even United and Sun Country. But that’s all speculation. Right now, all we know is that Spirit is in critical condition.

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Brett Avatar

102 responses to “Spirit’s Survival Hopes Dim After Posting Awful Q2 Results”

  1. SEAN Avatar
    SEAN

    Tic toc, tic toc. Since travel demand is softening, it’s only a matter of time until liquidation.

  2. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    Guns N Roses? Should have gone with Grave Digger by DMB…
    In all seriousness, if Spirit goes, I think you’ll see a massive focus on the “weak leisure demand in the domestic market”

    If thats really the cause of Spirits demise, then im not sure you will see a bolster to its competitors (maybe they’ll stand pat), but also weak travel demand seems like the worst support reason to other competitors vs “sudden incident impacting airline trust” (aka valujet). Either way Ill be curious to see what the public discourse of this will be if it all goes down the tubes.

    1. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      If Spirit goes down, Frontier and others will enjoy a respite.

      That doesn’t mean Frontier and the others have a good model. Frontier has basically the same fundamental issue as Spirit – spill model in a time where the legacies are leaving less spill.

      Frontier’s network planners seem just as clueless as Spirit in that regard. Nothing F9 has done since Covid has addressed this weakness. Any return to health by Frontier in a post Spirit world won’t be because Frontier’s model is strong. It will just be because it outlasted Spirit.

    2. Brett Avatar

      Mike – I was going to go with the original from Bob Dylan and a scene from Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid, but I figured that might be too obscure…

      1. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        Good job on the lyrics.

    3. Anthony Avatar
      Anthony

      Love the DMB reference!

  3. JT8D Avatar
    JT8D

    Spirit’s problem is that it hasn’t addressed its most fundamental issue.

    It’s a spill carrier. No one flies Spirit for choice. Pre Covid, the big airlines, American, etc, left enough demand on the table for Spirit to make good money.

    That doesn’t mean Spirit has a good business model. It’s always has a terrible model – the test of a model being is what happens when it is under pressure.

    Spirit has been under pressure since Covid. The legacies decided to let less demand spill over to Spirit. And the weakness of its model was suddenly revealed.

    And Spirit has done nothing to fix that. To be fair, it would be hard to shift to a model where it relies less on spill. But it hasn’t even tried. To me it appears they don’t even understand the problem they face.

    1. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      I’d even go one step further and say that Spirit (and Frontier, Breeze, etc.) can’t shift to a more stable model, because the US majors have successfully answered the challenge of the market splitting into “network” and “leisure” carriers (lower fares and point-to-point routes) to the extent it has in Europe, through different fare classes and, in Southwest’s case, becoming more like the Big Three.

      (The European Big Three – ILM, Lufthansa Group, and AF/KLM – have “leisure” brands within their ownership groups to challenge the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet, although part of this is also due to the strucrure of European labour agreements.)

      I’m not sure Frontier or Breeze has that much more of a grip on the challenge than Spirit has. Allegiant’s really unique model has a much better chance of survival in the long run.

      1. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        I think this is fundamentally untrue, or at least, unproven.

        There is a successful model in Europe – Ryanair. No one has ever tried that model in the US. Skybus in 2007/2008 billed itself as the US equivalent, but their main base was Columbus, OH. Whereas the base that was the foundation of Ryanair’s success was London. Columbus on the one side, London on the other. These things are obviously different.

        (Skybus did other stupid things, I’m just pointing out one very obvious way in which they were Not Ryanair).

        Ryanair dominates its markets – it is not a spill carrier.

        If you look back to the original Southwest (1980s/1990s), it too was not a spill carrier. It also dominated its markets.

        You’re looking at the troubles of Frontier and Spirit and saying “ULCCs don’t work in the US”. Except Frontier and Spirit are a very specific type of carrier – a spill carrier – and most successful LCC/ULCC models are not.

        (Allegiant, at least in its “original” small city markets, is not a spill carrier in a conventional sense – it’s by far the most stable US ULCC business model).

        Spill carriers don’t have control of their own fate. You rely “on the kindness of strangers”. Spirit and Frontier were always living on borrowed time. There’s nothing the legacies did post Covid they couldn’t have done pre-Covid to Spirit and Frontier. But in 2014 American implicitly told then DOT/DOJ they’d be kind to Spirit and Frontier as a condition of the US Airways merger. They said that these carriers were effective competition. So they needed to demonstrate that was true, at least for a time. And times were good, so the legacies didn’t mind spilling a little demand.

        Consider Sun Country. It’s a spill carrier – its scheduled passenger business depends on Delta not going after its markets at Minneapolis. It appears to have some kind of informal accommodation with Delta there. It’s still not a great business – in 2Q, its scheduled business actually shrank. But it’s better than Spirit or Frontier.

        However, Sun Country’s fortunes fundamentally depend on Delta in just the same way as Frontier and Spirit depended on the legacies pre-Covid. If Delta ever hits the gas at MSP, Sun Country is toast. Sun Country fundamentally relies on the kindness of Delta. It’s a bad business model. That doesn’t mean it can’t make money for a time – Spirit and Frontier did for a while. Terrible models can make money in the right environment.

        But the test of a model is what happens when you put it under pressure. If Delta ever puts pressure on Sun Country at MSP, it’s dead.

        1. Anthony Avatar
          Anthony

          Delta isn’t really incentivized to kill Sun Country. They’re an insignificant competitor on only a handful of routes, so DL is likely happy to let them eek out their 11% market share. If they crushed SY, they risk a more formidable competitor like WN entering the market.

          1. JT8D Avatar
            JT8D

            Maybe – except that other airlines (like Southwest) were already bigger in MSP in the past (according to Sun Country’s own investor relations decks). So there’s some question as to whether OAs really want the business.

            But again, the point is that Sun Country’s fortunes are not in their own hands. Actually, all their businesses are like that. None of these businesses have moats, or if they do, they’re in the hands of other parties:

            * Amazon freight – in Amazon’s control
            * MSP scheduled passenger – in Delta’s control
            * Charter – vulnerable to every other airline in the US

            They’ve done a great job of optimizing these, for what they are. But you can’t put a high valuation on any of these revenue/profit streams. It’s not like the valuation you could put on Southwest’s profit stream in, say, in 1995 or on Ryanair’s profits today. Or even the valuation I’d put on Allegiant’s profits today.

            1. Mr Eric Avatar
              Mr Eric

              Amazon freight exists to service Amazon’s own business needs, not to make a profit on freight. It’s a necessary evil in order to fulfill customer orders and fulfill its distribution centers.

              To say it another way, it is a moat no wants to enter because it is not profitable running a next day delivery model with limited to no ability to charge a premium (unlike FedEx/UPS).

        2. stogieguy7 Avatar
          stogieguy7

          Ryanair is an Irish carrier and their HQ and largest hub are in Dublin. However they have other subsidiaries such as Malta Air, Lauda, Buzz and a UK corporate spinoff too. They got on the ground floor using a solid model which mainly specializes in flights of under 3 hours. Lots of eq/crew utilization, lots of pax butts in seats. And you pay for everything not included in your fare.

          In Europe, where frugality is favored when it’s not too miserable, ULCCs simply do better than here. And, the intra-Europe flights on the likes of BA or LH aren’t much better than what you get on a ULCC. Its a different market than we have here and thus hard to draw a conclusion by comparing them.

    2. CruisingAltitude Avatar
      CruisingAltitude

      100% agree that they dropped the ball by not addressing the “nobody wants to fly them” issue sooner, but I think it’s a bit off-base saying they haven’t even tried, at least of late. They’ve done a ton of things from reducing a lot of their onerous fees and trying to “premiumize” by adding in a premium economy product, moving away from the ancillary led model to a bundle model, etc. Were those things good ideas? Debatable, but I think it’s also important to remember that while they were essentially in a holding pattern because of the Jetblue merger and they really couldn’t change anything during that period. Once that fell apart they really had to scramble. Totally agree that the model was always at risk and they took way too long to realize it and arguably none of the ideas they’ve had to change it are new or likely to have the desired effect, but to say they haven’t tried anything is to my mind a bit disingenuous. Too little too late though for sure… Thanks for the reminder of skybus…that was…something…

      1. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        But none of those things address the spill carrier issue.

        Airlines make consistent money based on market control. Control a market, you have pricing power, you can get a bit more money.

        Spill carriers, by definition, have no market control. Bundling your fares, nicer seats – doesn’t address the issue. Spirit, for instance, flies Chicago O’Hare to Dallas/Ft Worth. Nicer seats, etc – not going to change the fact that it has no control of that market. it will always will get the dregs of demand in that market. So then you have to ask – should it put that aircraft time in a different market where it might be able to build control over time. Which is why this is fundamentally a network issue.

        By the way, Ryanair doesn’t do any of those things (nice seats, etc) but that doesn’t stop it from controlling markets. So, I tend to be skeptical about the ability of such things to bend the curve relative to network. I tend to think things like product enhancements, clever pricing, etc – those things might be able to enhance a model that already works, but I don’t think they can prop up a carrier that doesn’t control markets.

        1. Bill from DC Avatar
          Bill from DC

          This is exactly correct

  4. Matt D Avatar
    Matt D

    This would mark the first time a *MAJOR* airline has ceased ops since 1991 were that to happen. And that was a pretty rough year with Pan Am, Eastern, and the original Midway all going down within that year.

    But I’m not sure that will happen. It seems like now, it will end one of two ways. Either someone will finally buy them out. Or they will announce a shutdown with at least a few weeks notice. I can’t imagine it being an “out of the blue” cessation like we saw in ’91 and earlier where thousands showed up for their flights only to be told the airline no longer exists.

    Can you imagine a repeat of that chaos?

    A magic rabbit can also always appear and they pull through just fine.

    But then again, what airline has ever succeeded with the ‘shrink to profitability’ strategy?

    And the (original) Braniff shutdown was something of a legend. Have you heard the story of the in flight 747 that was told to divert to DAL because the airline shut down? And they said “nope” and completed the flight to Hawaii. And there was a little champagne toast for everyone on board.

    1. MK03 Avatar
      MK03

      ATA and Aloha did not count as majors?

      1. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        Not really, at least on a national-system level. They were major players in Hawaii at the time each shut down, so that magnified the impact.

    2. Dan GOLDZBAND Avatar
      Dan GOLDZBAND

      I do recall that about the Braniff flight to HNL. I believe Len Morgan was the captain–can anyone confirm?

    3. Paper Boarding Pass Avatar
      Paper Boarding Pass

      Let’s not count out Chapter 22 (chapter 11 x 2). IIRC, TWA hit Chapter 33 just prior to merger with American.

      To TWAs advantage was its hub in St Louis and Euro operations at JFK. These kept it alive longer than need be.

      1. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        I can’t see any funding sources wanting to step up at this point to facilitate another Spirit run through chapter 11 with the performance numbers they’re putting up post-reorganization.

        The bottom line is that their business model is just not working, and there doesn’t seem to be an obvious way out of the situation. They are simply bleeding cash too fast for any possible solutions that would take time to implement. And all indications are that there simply isn’t room in the US market for both Frontier and Spirit. (For that matter, I’m not sure the Frontier/Spirit model works at all, but taking Spirit out of the picture might give F9 a short-term window to increase fares and stagger back to break-even.)

        1. JT8D Avatar
          JT8D

          Agreed. If Spirit craters, Frontier will have some breathing room. Whether it has the wit to use that breathing room intelligently remains to be seen.

          What’s striking is that despite being under pressure for, now, years, neither Spirit nor Frontier has shown any signs of trying to venture meaningfully outside of their existing model. There is an astonishingly lack of imagination at these carriers.

    4. SPmiscell Avatar
      SPmiscell

      Etihad probably a rare example of shrink to profitability…if you trust their numbers.

  5. Anon Avatar
    Anon

    CF – I think you’ve omitted to mention the likely loss of confidence by passengers in buying tickets more than about two weeks ahead after a going concern warning gets publicised widely in news media. The revenues they might have been hoping for in the rest of 2025 and particularly around Thanksgiving and Xmas to use as working capital are likely destroyed. I imagine fuel suppliers will be rapidly tightening payment terms as well. Well into death spiral territory. Their only hope is to sell a significant number of aircraft and quickly.

    1. SEAN Avatar
      SEAN

      Agreed. Besides when has shrinking to profitability ever worked? Another red flag was the leaseback of engines witch is something you do if one is strapped for cash & if you have been following the recent saga involving Kohl’s, then you would know the struggles they too are facing as PE encircles them like hungry sharks.

      1. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        Shrinking to profitability can work in a situation where you have control of markets. There are situations where the amount you gain in average revenue offsets whatever cost increases you might have. Continental in the mid 1990s was a lot smaller than it had been earlier, for instance. It dumped its Denver hub and that was a good thing because it had a poor position there (competing with United, which was larger). Whereas it had dominant position in Houston and Newark.

        In 2008, Allegiant shrank its position in many markets (while continuing to grow somewhat overall). Since it had pricing power in its little local leisure monopolies, prices in those markets went up. Increased RASM significantly helped to offset increased CASM from fuel prices (since oil went to $147/barrel). This allowed Allegiant to stay profitable in 2008 in a year when most airlines made very heavy losses.

        In the Spirit situation, as a spill carrier it’s basically a price taker – it has very little ability to move RASM significantly up. So shrinking results in CASM going up, but RASM doesn’t move nearly enough to offset. So in the Spirit situation, yes, shrinking is problematic.

        Fundamental issue remains the spill-carrier nature of its business model.

        1. Capt Buck Lucky Avatar
          Capt Buck Lucky

          “Shrinking to profitability can work in a situation where you have control of markets”

          Thank you for bringing up the all-important concept of market share and concentration. Controlling a market makes all the difference in the world concerning profitability. The world’s greatest airline with the world’s greatest product will fail if pitted against a lousy monopolist airline with 80% market share. Economists understood this at least as far back as the early 1970s. All of the big airlines making money in today’s US marketplace have a few things in common. One, is size/scale which allows them to offer lucrative co-branded credit cards associated with frequent flyer programs AND the other is multiple localized markets (A.K.A. airports) where they are situated in the sweet spot of “S-curve”, also known as 60% – 80% market share. This gives them pricing power. Delta does it best, but AA, UA and SWA have multiple airports where they command a majority market share giving them pricing power. Alaska has north of 50% in SEA and 70%+ in HNL thanks to the Hawaiian acquisition. Frontier, Spirit, Jet Blue and every other LCC or ULCC have ZERO. THIS IS AN IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION. Every airline in the US today that’s not top five, is in danger of being picked off one by one unless the government breaks up the big four or allows more mergers aimed at preserving competition. Alaska proves you can be less than global in scale and still make money, but you cannot be small and have no market power at any major airport and survive. This is fatal or can turn fatal as soon as the likes of DL, UA, AA, SWA decide to bleed you out of existence at whatever airport where you currently have a toe-hold. This reason and this alone is why the government blocking JetBlue’s acquisition of Spirit was a gross miscarriage of antitrust law. The combined entity would have been vastly smaller than UA’s order book, not even half UA’s size, and a distant #5 competitor to SWA. The NK/B6 combined entity’s most concentrated market would have been FLL at 50%. FLL is a secondary spillover airport in the Miami-Dade metroplex. That 50% hardly seems problematic given American has 70% of the bigger, busier MIA locked down with 80%+ monopolist control of DFW and CLT.

    2. Wany Avatar
      Wany

      This is so true, to some extend. I don’t think general public would remember this news when they saw their holiday flight is marketed at 1/2 of what other airlines are charging. On the other hand, I just booked my first flight on Spirit a few days before because how dirt cheap it was. Just this morning they posted a schedule change for my trip and I am seriously considering canceling for a refund.

    3. Anthony Avatar
      Anthony

      Wow, I wrote all of this in a separate comment, including the phrase, “death spiral” before I read yours. Great minds!

  6. Tim Dunn Avatar
    Tim Dunn

    NK’s situation is the ROI on all of the money that US taxpayers dumped into the airline industry – and the rest of the economy for quarter after quarter during covid.
    That money REQUIRED airlines to keep employees on the payroll and not rationalize capacity.

    With weak business and higher value leisure demand, the big 4 had even more seats they could use to combat economy basic type fares.

    Without any network advantages, the ULCCs and B6 have been hardest hit in the post covid period.

    Yes, it is hard to believe that NK can survive if their credit card processor tightens the screws; and it is even harder to imagine what NK can do to further cut costs even in another chapter 11 given they just emerged and relisted the stock.

    The lesson is that government interference in an industry that is still treated as governed by the free enterprise system will bear consequences at some point. and we are now here.

    The only question is how many other US airlines will go through at least one form of bankruptcy reorganization.

    1. SEAN Avatar
      SEAN

      But I thought we were in an era of “TBTF?”/s

      1. Tim Dunn Avatar
        Tim Dunn

        first, I’m not sure that any US airline CEOs really believed they were too big to fail and thus could run a poor business other than Doug Parker.

        second, it is hard to see how NK could be considered in the camp of TBTF. They don’t have any strength markets where someone else doesn’t already have a decent presence and don’t make up more than about 5% of the US industry airline capacity – and that percentage keeps shrinking.

        and third, the big 4 plus AS are probably the only carriers that could legitimately argue they are TBTF and all any of the others needs to prove that any one of the other is “expendable” is to demonstrate that they can and will replace lost capacity. We have seen hubs closed so the market does find the right capacity for former hub markets.

        and finally, the notion that F9 or B6 or any other carrier that is on the low end of performance right now will be saved by NK’s failure – if it happens – is optimistic. the big 4 will continue to pump capacity where it needs to go to further weaken the weakest carriers.

        ultimately, you have to admit that the US governments attempts to regulate the airline industry from deregulation to forcing ultra low cost and low cost carrier access into certain airports through today has not worked. given that we are coming up on 50 years of domestic deregulation, there is no better time to rethink what the airline industry should look like and move toward it

    2. Chris Avatar
      Chris

      I could not agree more. If the objective of CARES was to help employees survive/eat, then it should have made payments directly to those employees. Propping up the airlines resulted in more stock buybacks, etc., with the net result that a lot of employees still did not benefit from those payments. Companies should be allowed to fail. We can not socialize losses and privatize gains – full stop. You back stop it with a strong social safety net and capitalism gets to do it’s thing.

  7. Bill from DC Avatar
    Bill from DC

    I wonder why they were allowed to exit Chapter 11 protection in such terrible shape

    1. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      So far the people in control of Spirit don’t appear to have much of a plan. Maybe they’re cooking up something that will stun us all (always possible) but nothing so far hints at that.

      A merger between Spirit and Frontier won’t, in and of itself, fix things (and might even take Frontier down – mergers are disruptive events that require a lot of finesse and care to make work, and Frontier’s management… well, do you associate “finesse” with those guys?)

      But if Spirit is actually so bereft of ideas, then in retrospect you have to wonder if it wasn’t the best idea for Spirit anyway. Not because the combination makes any more sense – it does not. But because if the alternative is “spin out of control” (which seems to be what is happening) then the alternative of handing the keys to someone else is nonetheless better.

    2. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      In a “prepackaged” Chapter 11, the major creditors – who have signed off on the plan – and any new investors injecting equity are seen as the ones taking the future risk, and they’ve already agreed to the new business plan as part of the overall process. So the actual business plan going forward gets relatively little scrutiny beyond what the major parties have already agreed to.

      It also presumes that unsecured creditors are now actually at less risk than they were before, as it’s presumed that the reorganized and recapitalized business will be more stable and more likely to be profitable. That hasn’t played out in this case, to say the least.

      1. emac Avatar
        emac

        CraigTPA this is a good point and good question. Which would’ve been better for Spirit and the creditors: the prepackaged bankruptcy that shuffled the debt a bit, or a real 18 month-plus bankruptcy where Spirit tears out everything that doesn’t work, cancels leases, tears up labor agreements (sorry) and emerges with a real shot.

        I don’t know much about what was achieved in the prepackaged bankruptcy for the creditors (someone else can chime in), but for the airline it clearly accomplished nothing.

      2. Bill from DC Avatar
        Bill from DC

        It seems this prepackaged bankruptcy exit is nonsense.

        I’m a small government guy at heart but since bankruptcy protection is provided via federal law, the federal government should have some say as to how to exit the protection that it provides.

        This almost reads like a scam. Cancel debts without penalty. Cancel the existing equity then issue new phony baloney stock destined for similar worthlessness in the (very) near future.

        Bankruptcy? This is more like a ponzi scheme!

        1. JT8D Avatar
          JT8D

          The Federal govt does have a say – bankruptcies operate in conformance with Federal bankruptcy laws passed by Congress that have been updated numerous times over history.

          Those who loan money know very well what are those laws – in other words, they know what is likely to happen in the event of bankruptcy. Knowing the risks, they lent money anyway (or bought bonds).

          So long as government money does not go into bankrupt companies, I am OK with Chapter 11 or whatever. It’s just the divvying up of assets among private parties according to rules that everyone understood going in.

          There are no shortage of private parties willing to lend or buy bonds, so apparently the bankruptcy laws have not limited the availability of debt. That being the case, what reason is there for concern?

    3. Capt Buck Lucky Avatar
      Capt Buck Lucky

      I have heard it said that bankruptcy protection status was standing between Ted Christie and a big payday and was believed to be a factor in the rapid and ill-advised exit. Not an insider, but I have also heard it said Christie terminated some Covid era government loans with extremely favorable terms/interest rates in favor of exorbitant private loans because the government loans had very strict constraints on executive compensation. Gotta love those rational actor free-market incentives!

  8. grichard Avatar
    grichard

    I wish I understood the financial arrangement between airlines and credit card issuers better. I guess I thought the credit card company just bought frequent flyer miles from the airline with the proceeds from its interest and fees.

    Is the credit card company just worried about being left holding worthless miles? Or is it more complicated?

    1. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      It’s two separate things. This has nothing to do with frequent flyer miles and that kind of thing.

      What we’re talking about is credit card processing – the people who run the credit card to create a charge on your account and give proceeds to the airline.

      As you know, if an airline goes out of business, and you bought a ticket on your credit card but have yet to fly, you can go back to your credit card company and get a refund.

      So, that exposes a credit-card processor to risk. If the airline goes out of business, it will be stuck with all those bought-but-unflown tickets that were bought by credit card.

      Bought-but-unflown tickets are known in the industry as “air traffic liability” – they are a short-term liability on an airline’s balance sheet. It’s a very large amount and in theory, generates cash – because, in theory, the airline gets the cash in advance of actually flying the ticket.

      But what the credit card processor will do for very risky airlines is hold back part or all of the proceeds of the bought-but-unflown tickets until such time as it is flown. That obviously can deprive a risky airline of cash when it needs it most. There are processors which, in the past, have actually tried to hold back *more than 100%* of the proceeds, which means that air traffic liability is no longer a generator of cash, but actually sucks up cash.

      This is a very real effect. It caused the bankruptcy of Frontier Airlines in 2008 – the credit card processor said “we’re gonna hold back your proceeds”, Frontier said “we can’t afford that” and declared Chapter 11.

      1. grichard Avatar
        grichard

        Thanks. Obviously I thought this was something to do with cobranded cards rather than payments. Appreciate the explanation.

      2. Kilmer Avatar
        Kilmer

        Oh boy, these bleedin’ banks! When an airline hits a rough patch they don’t stab you in the back. They stab you in the front and it’s all over.

        1. Oliver Avatar
          Oliver

          What would you do if you were running a credit card processor and had an airline as a customer?

    2. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      deleted – JT8D beat me to it.

      The only thing I’d add is that a holdback increase is also likely to lead creditors, particularly fuel providers, to make terms more restrictive or even start requiring cash on delivery.

  9. Dan Avatar
    Dan

    Spirit never seemed to be able to develop a market personality, one that would prompt genuine brand loyalty, the way a Ryan or SWA were able to do. Spirit’s obit will likely be written in the kind of clinical bizspeak seen here, rather than the warm and fuzzy remembrances of an Aloha or People’s Express. On the other hand, they could take a shot at flying Tump’s gulag routes, like Avelo has.

    1. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      In the Baldanza era they went out of their way to anger customers and of course they had those sleazy ads (“MILF fares! Many Islands, Low Fares!”) – and the one that featured someone sleeping with their best friend’s mother. And more substantially, Spirit’s reliability has always been terrible.

      They earned their negative image – jokes on Saturday Night Live, etc. In that respect, Frontier has to be happy Spirit existed. There wasn’t much difference between Spirit and Frontier the last 10 years, but Spirit’s reputation has always been more terrible, it attracted the negative publicity that might have affected Frontier too.

      1. David Wayne Pearlman Avatar
        David Wayne Pearlman

        I remember those days! The bought into the axiom “There is no such thing as bad publicity”, and Spirit grew big-time in those days….It could be argued that Spirit’s downfall began when they tried to become “kinder and gentler.

        1. Oliver Avatar
          Oliver

          Correlation != causation

        2. Anon Avatar
          Anon

          I think Spirit decided to copy Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary on this – 20 years ago, MOL could be seen doing all kinds of stupid photo-stunts just to get publicity. There’s even the famous blow-job conference with MOL from that era

    2. stogieguy7 Avatar
      stogieguy7

      From what I can tell, I don’t know that Ryanair have a brand following either. It seems that the ULCCs in Europe have somewhat less overlap than we see here with more small city point-to-point routes to choose from. So if you need to go from Glasgow to Wroclaw, only Ryanair gets you there nonstop and for as cheap as $21 one way. If it was a different market in Spain, perhaps you’d be looking at easyjet instead. It seem to depend on pricing and schedule in that order. There’s your loyalty to ULCCs in Europe – one day it’s Ryanair, another it’s Volotea and perhaps next month it’s Pegasus for that trip to Ankara.

      The ULCCs fly routes that you’ll never even find on a legacy carrier. And vice versa. Who does Aberdeen-AMS with connections beyond? KLM. My point is that you can’t compare Sprit’s woes with Ryanair’s successes. Apples and watermelons.

      1. NathanP Avatar
        NathanP

        I agree with this comment that ULCC don’t have, or even need, brand loyalty. While mister airline credit card (with lounge access) won’t be looking to book on an ULCC, the rest of us will happily fly whatever non-stop is available. It really does come down to choosing the correct city pairs and then actually flying your schedule reliably.

  10. Kenneth Avatar
    Kenneth

    I’ve often said in my red teaming of the airline industry that we’re not giving enough credence to the growing gap between haves and have nots in the U.S. For the same reason Wendy’s posted a loss simply because economicallly challenged folks have decided to skip breakfast, the ULCC segment is contining to struggle in a segment that will only see its discretionary spending drop with time.

  11. BadBob Avatar
    BadBob

    Very similar to what happened to us at Eastern.

  12. emac Avatar
    emac

    OK it’s time for the real av geeky fun: who are the vultures and what do they get? Who wants a bunch of A320/321/NEOs (probably all leased on crappy terms), a bunch of gates scattered across the country, and maybe some pilots?

    Does Frontier step in and complete the marriage of ultra low margin carriers? JetBlue decides it wants this glowing, toxic uranium in order to grab some extra capacity in Boston and FLL? Does United see more opportunity or risk here, grabs some assets at FLL and some Airbuses? Breeze or Sun Country? Hey, maybe American or Delta sees something here?

    1. Brian W Avatar
      Brian W

      I dont think Frontier or JetBlue have the cash burn to buy Spirit and sustain the cost of integration as they lose money already. Alaska has the funds and experience if it wants a Fort Lauderdale base.

      The planes are leased and will be sent back to their owners and released out. Adding 200 planes to the market probably depresses the l3ase market for a few quarters.

      1. Cruse Alert Avatar
        Cruse Alert

        The days of ultra low cost airlines are over in the US market. Spirt Management abused customers, employees, lenders, and investors. Next will be the banks. Once burned never returned. Has every airline planner forgot the old
        saying ” Take care of the customer and they will
        take care of you” ?
        I would be brushing up the resume ASAP.

    2. tb Avatar
      tb

      @emac I don’t know how F9 or B6 come up with the cash required on such short notice. They would be much better served figuring out their go-forward plan in light of the current LCC/ULCC realities other commenters have aptly described. For MXY it’s a hard no – they are still trying to finally get out of the 190’s remaining on property, and more capacity per flight (that 320’s /321’s would bring) would see them following Spirit and Frontier down that rabbit hole to pricing hell.

      The guy absolutely beside himself with glee? Scott Kirby. United can pick up some airframes and parts on the cheap to tide them over the current backlog / delay in the Max10 and 321 prod lines. Also Spirit tried pretty hard in some pretty core east coast markets to United. If they disappear, UA retains the customers they have, gobbles up the “spill” and definitely puts on the upward pricing pressure. One thing I’ve learned about Kirby – if he says something in public more than a couple times he’s hell bent to make it happen. And he has been singing the death knell of Spirit for months now.

    3. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      The Venn diagram of airlines with the cash to buy Spirit and the desire to buy Spirit is two circles that don’t touch. In theory, I guess Indigo Partners might be able to scrape up the money, but it’s unlikely that they’d be able to integrate it with Frontier without F9’s minority stockholders filing suits. The Big Four and Alaska could finance it, but they don’t want it. JetBlue can’t swing the fianancing without a huge outside capital injection, and with their more recent changes in direction they probably aren’t interested either.

      The planes and employees will get snapped up in the post-shutdown sales, not before (except perhaps for the 21 planes identified in the 10Q as parked and on the balance sheet as “assets held for sale”. That item on the balance sheet is a THIRD of their total “current assets”, which is another sign of their fundamental financial weakness – they’re going to take markdowns on that if the “death spiral” really sets in.)

      I can see JetBlue specifically looking for purchases to consolidate what will then be their #1 position at FLL, and perhaps some specific growth at MCO. All the existing A320 family operators will kick the tires of the planes, but will be selective on what they take depending on their growth needs, their level of pain from the current production issues, and where the economic forecasts point to at that time.

    4. Paper Boarding Padd Avatar
      Paper Boarding Padd

      Should Spirit fold(Chapter7), I believe:
      – Mad scramble for gates at LAX, LGA, & EWR & ORD
      – B6 picks up some PAX volume at FLL & MCO due to overlap
      – approx 130 NOE jets and 50 orders become available relieving some of the production shortage
      – several of the NEO & CEO jets are dismantled to relieve the current parts shortage (already done with an A220)
      – If UA moves quick, it gets its southeast footprint it has long desired at FLL
      – minimal impact to trunk carriers (UA, DL, AA, & WN) for they maintain base fares as a required nuisance
      – Frontier and Breeze and Allegiant get a reprieve, but need to work on their business model for long term viability
      – Certain employees (pilots and mechanics) may find alternate work, but the rest are severely hurt

      1. Paper Boarding Pass Avatar
        Paper Boarding Pass

        May I add a mad scramble for gates at DCA as well.

  13. John G Avatar
    John G

    This further illustrates how dumb the court ruling barring B6 from buying them was.

    The judge was like you can’t remove a low cost carrier.

    Except the market is removing it anyway.

    1. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      The court did JetBlue a huge favor. Hard to see a combined B6 + NK end up anywhere but bankruptcy.

      That plan was one of the least plausible ever. Take 200 aircraft worth of capacity previously targeted at the lowest end traffic and, almost overnight, convert it into JetBlue capacity. Somehow find 200 narrowbodies worth of new JetBlue customers in new markets mostly unrelated to NYC and Boston (bc there is no room left there).

      Omigod.

      It’s not like merging Alaska and JetBlue and retaining the customers from each – it was about finding largely new customers in a hurry. Those customers would have to come out of the hides of the legacies or Southwest or Alaska, all of whom would have fought like heck.

      It would have been fun to watch, but the outcome… Largely predetermined.

      1. John G Avatar
        John G

        Actually it would have been a great move for B6, if handled right.

        JetBlue is trapped in the NE. They don’t have enough capacity to grow away from there on their own. Buying NK for the planes and pilots was a quick way to try to grow out of there.

        Of course the whole “if done right” assumes they wouldn’t have screwed it up, but I digress.

        1. JT8D Avatar
          JT8D

          Again, this was not a conventional merger of two airlines and keeping the customer bases of both. This was about walking away from the Spirit customer base and trying to find 200 aircraft worth of higher-grade customers to be new JetBlue customers (because JetBlue has a different customer demographic from Spirit). It was like growing JetBlue by about 100% in a one or two year period.

          Those 200 aircraft worth of higher-grade customers already fly other airlines. Those other airlines would fight hard to retain them. You would have had a massive fare war on affected routes. Other airlines would be affected to the extent they had overlap with the new JetBlue routes. JetBlue would have been affected on the 200 aircraft worth of new routes – so at least 50% of its overall new network. It would be like walking into a buzz saw.

          What JetBlue was proposing was something that had never before been seen in the industry. Whether the judge should have prevented it – perhaps not. I don’t think Spirit warranted being propped up artificially, and I think managements should generally be free to do stupid things. It’s between them and their shareholders. In that sense, I think the people who had the most to be angry about were then-Spirit shareholders. They lost out. Oh, other ULCCs also lost out because they’d have been able to pick up some former Spirit customers.

          But as to whether the idea was a good one for JetBlue – it was terrible. Truly bizarre.

          By the way, the market figured out it was a bad idea. JetBlue stock dropped on the announcement (it was already at low levels) and recovered a bit when the airline called off the merger.

          My view is JetBlue was “trapped” in the NE the way that Alaska was “trapped” in the Pacific Northwest. It didn’t stop Alaska from being profitable – and over time they leveraged that profitability to grow into other markets. But profitability first. Which Alaska did in part by becoming unavoidable in the PNW. And Alaska still has no real presence outside of the west coast (and now Hawaii) – has that stopped it from being profitable?

          JetBlue never rigorously focused on profitability. It kept alive its Long Beach base despite losses, dreaming up reasons to not kill it. That was almost an insistence on p*ssing away money. I think instead it should have kept doubling down on the NE, becoming unavoidable – owning places like Hartford, Providence, Islip, all of those reinforcing its presence at JFK/LGA and Boston.

          It made some unfortunate choices – the E190 subjected it to drag. But again, at a certain point you have to say “this was a bad idea, we’re getting out of the aircraft, we’ll take a huge charge, but our financials will be more profitable going forward”. Demonstrate a core business that is profitable and worthy of investment. JetBlue’s all time stock high was in 2003, an indictment of its management since then.

        2. See_Bee Avatar
          See_Bee

          I tend to agree with John G. B6 would have better scale and could earn a higher revenue premium than NK with those yellow (turned blue) tails. They could better compete in markets with that scale and attract more people to their credit card

          Would B6 have enough cash leftover and time to do the integration after overpaying and already losing money? That’s another question!

      2. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        So true – the only thing that would have been worse is if JetBlue had bought Spirit and gone ahead with the idea I saw a few people in the media float of them operating part of Spirit as a separate brand on an ongoing basis using their current business model.

        JetBlue would be gone by now.

      3. Bill from DC Avatar
        Bill from DC

        Agreed, B6 should thank its lucky stars for dodging that bullet. I can’t believe anybody ever thought that was a good idea!

  14. syvjeff Avatar
    syvjeff

    In the middle of the bad numbers, how many Spirit A320/A321 NEOs are sitting on the ground waiting for engines? Does the airline have a case against Pratt & Whitney (now RTX) to sue for some cash?

    Now to the crazy stuff we will see on airliners.net – Will Southwest dominate Florida and increase NYC presence by buying Spirit with Elliot’s help? Will Boeing be shaking in their shoes when Southwest buys Spirit to add Airbus aircraft, crews and cancels 737s because of Max delays? Will United finally get their Florida expansion and become a mega airline by buying the carcass of Spirit with Jet Blue’s help?

    Might even see some crazier headlines. I’m popping some popcorn.

    1. Brett Avatar

      syvjeff – They already have an agreement with Pratt on all that, so I don’t think they’re going to squeeze anything more out of them. Maybe it Pratt had an incentive to keep Spirit flying, it would be interested. But it would probably rather have those engines freed up if it could.

  15. Anthony Avatar
    Anthony

    The biggest threat to NK is the fact that this is all happening as we’re approaching the slow winter season. If they’re not making money in Q2 or Q3, there’s no chance they make it through Q4. This crack seems to be the start of a death spiral for any airline. Creditors require more upfront, passenger sentiment collapses and people are afraid to purchase tickets for fear they will be stranded. Is there any precedent for an airline returning from this position?

    1. Brett Avatar

      Anthony – Well, I guess define “returning.” Airlines have gone into bankruptcy and come out in a different form because somebody saw value in resurrection for one reason or another. But I don’t really see that value here.

      1. Anthony Avatar
        Anthony

        I mean returning from the death spiral. We saw the writing on the wall with Silver. A few years ago we saw Jet Airways and WOW slowly disintegrate. It seems like once the spiral begins, it’s nearly impossible to stop. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy once the bad news begins and it’s difficult to picture a scenario where Spirit is ever back to full capacity in a healthy financial position even if there is another bankruptcy filing.

    2. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      Quite a bit of NK’s business is winter-related, particularly their hub at FLL. But as the death spiral sets in, people will start booking away for this winter, so there’s no help coming there.

      I’ve gotten four Google “notifications” about the “ongoing concern” story this morning, and I don’t follow a lot of financial sites. The story is out there and getting traction fast.

    3. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      There does not seem to have been a plan coming out of Ch 11, at least not one that called for any serious business model changes. And then they lost time changing CEOs from Ted Christie to Davis.

      What funds/private equities are driving Spirit? Dave Siegel is there, he was at Sun Country as Chair when it was owned by Apollo. And of course Davis was at Sun Country during the same timeframe. If Spirit does die, it won’t burnish Siegel’s credentials. I assume he’s working like crazy to prevent Spirit’s end, but it’s hard to see anyone willing to put new money in this.

      Right now you would assume that Spirit would be only too glad to accept an offer from Frontier, but by the same token, one might expect Frontier to have finally woken up and smelled the stale coffee – maybe a merger is unwise and we’ll benefit more by letting Spirit crater.

      Spirit + Frontier doesn’t really do much. It’s not like America West + US Airways, where, despite the fact that those airlines were, respectively, sick and dying, they still controlled good markets, you could make the case that the two together were really worth more than apart and the Doug Parker management team had credibility. What does Spirit control? Nothing. What does Frontier control? Also nothing. And at the time, Airbus was very invested in these two airlines succeeding so they were willing to help, as were other parties like Air Wisconsin.

      Airbus now – production lines are sold out for, what, five, six, seven or more years? If Spirit goes down, its fleet will be almost instantly redeployed elsewhere. Its orders will go to others and in fact might even make Airbus’s life easier by creating some room on production lines that it can offer to airlines that would otherwise be forced to buy Boeing.

  16. southbay flier Avatar
    southbay flier

    I’m curious how much longer they will be around. Kids are already back in school in some places, which reduces leisure travel even more.

    I’m also curious if AA, DL, UA, or anyone else have any interest in some used A320s or A321s?

  17. Jason Avatar
    Jason

    Nobody’s coming to rescue Spirit in this stage of the game.
    However if someone were to take a stab at it I could see Southwest being the suitor.
    Southwest could swoop up Spirit in a fire sale that would easily be music to the credit card companies ears.
    WN could possibly come in and do a ATA type codeshare deal if SWAPA approves such a deal.
    The deal would definitely be worth it especially if WN to eventually shutdown the Spirit brand indefinitely.
    WN learn early on with the Muse Air/Transtar deal its was just cheaper to shut it down and sell off everything.
    So if a deal can be made In which it grabs lucrative slot assets at LGA,SNA and gates at LAS. Then sell off half of Spirit older A320 and redeploy a much smaller Spirit fleet to finish off its South,central America and Caribbean expansion funnel passengers to WN network in DEN,BNA,HOU,MCO plus reign its number 2 position in FLL while simultaneously bleeding a equally financially weakened B6.
    WN could easily sale off a vast majority of NK assets to recoup the cost of this acquisition.
    For NK L48 network WN flys to 90% of all the same cities that can easily just rebook NK passengers to WN flights as they dismantle the Domestic network.
    Since this would be a life saving acquisition, and not a merger they don’t really need to integrate much of the workforce.
    Without a WN acquisition to save NK I think when it fails WN will quickly reverse its course and rebuild its FLL market share to regain its huge Number 2 position.

    This is definitely gonna be fun barn burner to watch.

    I frequently fly on NK between LAS-ORD the cheap Big Front seat will be missed. All the lawn chairs being the big front seats will definitely not be missed.

  18. Eastern 727 Whisperjet Avatar
    Eastern 727 Whisperjet

    So, a purely local question (for me): who gets their slots at LGA, and who moves into the Marine Air Terminal there (Terminal A)?

    Just wondering.

    1. Bill from DC Avatar
      Bill from DC

      Your username always makes me smile, partly because Eastern was my first airline and partly because there wasn’t anything “whisper” about a 727!

      1. BadBob Avatar
        BadBob

        Bill, I recall seeing an RR Avon powered Caravelle take off once. That made the 727 seem quiet!

    2. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      Intersting question – I presume that the slots would revert to the FAA for reassignment due to non-use. The only case of an airline liquidating that I could find quickly (FAA vs Gull Air Inc., 1989) overturned an order from the bankruptcy court which allowed for LGA slots to be sold as assets.

      Airlines have been allowed to sell slots before (Delta sold some at LGA and DCA to JetBlue back in 2019), but as part of larger settlements with the DOT on slot swaps. I don’t think that applies in this case.

      So unless there have been changes to bankruptcy law specifically addressing slots, or a more recent precedent I’m not aware of (I have to spend some time on my real job, sigh), I’m presuming the slots will be put up for service requests and the FAA will apply the usual criteria of maintaining or enhancing competition, etc.

      As for the MAT/Terminal A, I’d guess it’ll depend on who gets the Spirit slots. If a new entrant got a large number of the slots, then I’d say they would go to the MAT, but I don’t see a large new entrant as a possibility unless someone at Breeze gets the itch to play on that side of the Hudson. If we presume the best tenant is a single airline with enough service to be the sole tenant (which seems to have been the trend since around 2018), then if they get more slots Frontier or Southwest would be most likely to move.

      I love the MAT, but I’m not sure anyone really wants to be there anymore with all of the upgrades to the rest of the airport.

  19. Tory Avatar

    I think this is a pretty exciting possibility from Forbes, what do you think Cranky? Maybe they could even have some sort of cross-connecting hybrid hub with JetBlue at FLL?

    “Should Spirit exit the market, United Airlines could see significant benefits. United could lease Spirit’s gates at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, an essential move for enhancing its footprint in Florida. This strategic acquisition would enable United to create a competitive hub for its Latin American routes, challenging American Airlines’ dominance from its Miami hub and improving connectivity in the lucrative South Florida market. Furthermore, United could benefit from leasing Spirit’s gates at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), where gate space is both precious and scarce.”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2025/08/13/how-united-airlines-could-be-the-biggest-winner-from-spirits-crisis/

    1. Brett Avatar

      Tory – I’ve been trying to get more information on how FLL gate allocation works, but the airport is not responding. My guess is that the airport wouldn’t just hand things over to United, but I do think if there was an opportunity, United could make a move. But they would only make a move if they can get enough gates to build something up right away.

      1. Tory Avatar

        Cool. Thanks. Agreed. Here’s what Google AI Mode has to say…

        “Gate allocation at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL), like many airports, is managed by the Broward County Aviation Department (BCAD) and involves a combination of preferential-use gates and common-use gates.

        Preferential-use gates: The majority of FLL’s gates (57 out of 66) are assigned to airlines on a preferential, non-exclusive basis through long-term lease agreements. These leases typically grant the airline priority in using those gates during their scheduled flights. The airlines themselves are responsible for managing their leased gates and coordinating their schedules within the designated space. According to USA Today, contracts with airlines can be on a spectrum from “exclusive use,” where one airline has more or less sole access to a particular gate, to “common use,” where the airport operator has complete control over the gate\’s use and can assign it to any airline as needed.

        Common-use gates: The remaining gates (9 at FLL) are managed by BCAD on a per-use basis. These are assigned dynamically by the airport’s operations department based on factors such as flight schedules, aircraft size, and operational needs.

        Can airlines sublease gates at FLL to another airline?

        Yes, airlines can sublease their gates to other airlines at FLL, but this is typically done through agreements with the airport authority.

        Subleasing through Lease Agreements: Airline-airport lease agreements often include provisions that allow the airline to make agreements with other carriers for the use of their facilities. This means an airline with a preferential lease on gates might be able to sublease those gates to another airline, particularly if the main airline isn’t utilizing the gates at all times. Subleasing can be cost-effective for airlines that may not need a full lease, as they can split the lease charges with another airline.

        Airport Oversight: While airlines have some flexibility with subleasing, BCAD maintains oversight to ensure fair and non-discriminatory access to airport facilities for all qualified airlines, as mandated by Federal Grant Assurance 5.

        In essence, airlines at FLL can sublease gates, but it’s done within the framework of their lease agreements with BCAD, respecting the airport’s policies, and ensuring fair access for all carriers.”

        1. Brett Avatar

          Yeah but that’s not what we need to know. That’s just about usage. What we need to know is 1) can you sell your gates (I think the answer is no) and 2) if not, how does Broward allocate unused gates when there is demand from multiple parties? That’s assuming Spirit would have to give them back if they fail and can’t sell them.

          1. Tory Avatar

            I think the important part is about subleasing: rather than ‘give them back’ (is that even an option under a long-term lease?), Spirit can sublease them to United, maybe even at a markup. I’m guessing the gate leasing agreement obligates Spirit to pay for the term of the lease regardless of utilization? So they come out ahead subleasing to United. And they explicitly said they wanted to monetize some of their gates – giving them back doesn’t do that.

            1. Brett Avatar

              You can’t sublease if you don’t exist… if Spirit continues to fly it’s not going to walk away from FLL.

            1. Brett Avatar

              This is great, thanks Anthony. Looks like section 14.1 may hold the key:

              Airline shall not sublet the Premises or any part thereof or transfer, assign, pledge, or
              otherwise encumber this Agreement or any rights or obligations hereunder, or allow
              same to be assigned by operation of law or otherwise without the prior written consent of
              the County, which shall not be unreasonably withheld and (any such action being called
              an “assignment”). Any such action shall be null and void and of no force or effect
              provided, however, Airline shall have the right, without the County’s prior written
              consent, to assign this Agreement or its rights hereunder to (a) an entity with whom
              Airline may merge or consolidate, (b) an entity that acquires all or substantially all of the
              Airline’s assets, or (c) a Wholly Owned Affiliate.

              So it needs Broward’s permission to transfer, but it doesn’t specifically say it can sell. It does suggest that approval can’t be reasonably withheld to transfer, however. I wonder if there’s a way to make that happen.

              It still doesn’t say how Broward would go about reallocating if the space is abandoned.

            2. Brett Avatar

              Actually, I take it back. This is really old. This dates back to 2011, it looks like

      2. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        Brett, do you think UA could actually try to build some sort of connecting hub to Latin America at FLL, and is there enough demand to support it? Kirby has said he expects to see capacity reduction in the US in the near term.

        My initial thought is that they can already serve connections over IAH or other hubs, and that if they want to compete for the local O&D market to anywhere south of Panama or the Caribbean they would need to be at MIA, not FLL.

        Can UA actively talk about Blue Sky in specific marketing materials, like pushing UA/B6 connections at FLL? Or does that cross the “coordination? threshold?

        1. Brett Avatar

          CraigTPA – Short answer is yes. FLL is way better than IAH for all but Mexico. If it could get enough gates to stand something up all at once, then I would think it would jump right in. That would have a huge coup for United to finally get into Florida in a meaningful way.

          It can certainly have an interline relationship connecting via FLL. There is no coordination required. If JetBlue’s flights happen to connect up, then it’s fair.

        2. Tory Avatar

          I think the UA play at FLL would be similar to what they have at LAX: limited nonstops that their SFO, DEN, ORD, and IAH hubs don’t cover well (basically the western/southwestern US) and a few select international destinations. In this case, I think they would try to fill in any gaps JB has out of FLL, including offering widebodies (or XLRs) to South America and key destinations in the southeastern US inside the IAD-ORD-IAH triangle (in addition to their hubs, of course). That gives local fliers a real alternative to AA and DL.

      3. Exit Row Seat Avatar
        Exit Row Seat

        It would be easier for UA to buy JetBlue if it really wanting FLL hub status.
        Therefore, it would get its full JFK access as well.
        Better do it while Trump is in office.

  20. Ken Smith Avatar
    Ken Smith

    Brett and others, if you were the CEO of Spirit and you had one last hale mary play (knowing the odds of sucess are slim to none), what would you try at this point? If the answer is nothing, what about if you were CEO a year ago, what play would you have made?

    1. Anon Avatar
      Anon

      If I were the CEO of Spirit, and I had one last throw of the dice…. I would be trying to sell every owned airplane and all other owned assets as quickly as possible… and fire a load of employees to cut the salary bill. It’s the only thing left that will save the company from Chapter 7. The only other option right now is to pick a date for a termination of all flying and semi-orderly shutdown of the company, announce it publicly and hope the public, creditors and the courts respect you for it – maybe the weekend after Labor Day – and all passengers for travel on subsequent dates and other unsecured creditors get a modest amount of their money back

      1. Anon Avatar
        Anon

        Maybe a Chapter 7 could be a little earlier than 08-Sept-2025. I’m guessing that they probably spend August being cashflow positive and switch to being cashflow negative a day or two after Labor Day. Chapter 7 could even be as early as Wednesday 03-Sept-2025. Management is probably now just fattening up the pig to maximise the assets for distribution to creditors post shutdown.

    2. Brett Avatar

      Ken – Now? I don’t think there’s anything that can be done. A year ago? Sell. Six months ago? Sell. They had the opportunity to sell to Frontier multiple times and they kept saying that they were being undervalued. No they weren’t.

    3. Anthony Avatar
      Anthony

      A year ago? Doubling down on a small number of cities which have a chance to win or effectively compete in (FLL, DTW, maybe PIT or CLE). Consolidating the network around those cities and removing the spaghetti from the route map. It’s expensive to maintain operations in airports with only 2 flights a week. The airline industry requires scale.
      Eliminate cursory service in extremely competitive, non-leisure markets NK has no chance of competing in (no need for NK to serve DFW-ORD or EWR-LAX).
      Build a connecting complex in FLL to the Caribbean and Latin America.
      Look for underserved markets which can be entered with a high level of ops, not just 2-3 flights a week; Places like SMF, BOI, BDL, PVD, MKE where you could build out a real network offering, with enough daily flights to enjoy the benefits of scale.

      Today? I can’t see a strategy with how limited their cash reserves are. Start selling assets to pay creditors and plan the wind down.

    4. Exit Row Seat Avatar
      Exit Row Seat

      As typical of senior leadership, those in the C-Suite are awarded fat bonuses as an incentive to assist in the Chapter 7 or Chapter 22 ( chapter 11 x 2) process. These are called retention bonuses .

      If in doubt, think Silicon Valley Bank in March, 2023. Bonuses were paid to executives just prior to collapse.

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