It’s a Good Time for Delta To Try to Grow — But Not Win — LAX


Delta seems ready to pounce further on Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) in order to grow its relevance, as shown by this week’s start of service to both Chicago/O’Hare and Hong Kong. The ultimate goal is presumably to become the dominant carrier in the market, but as I wrote earlier this week, it is highly unlikely that will actually happen. But that doesn’t mean Delta can’t make further gains. It absolutely can, and now is a good time to make that push.

As the data showed in my last post, Delta has significantly improved its position since the pandemic hit. In 2019, Delta had about 19 percent of domestic local traffic at LAX, but that has since climbed to 23 percent in 2025. It has seen its percentage of departing seats climb by a similar amount.

The building blocks for this actually went into place in May 2017 when Delta moved from its constrained Terminal 5/6 home at LAX to Terminals 2/3. It was going to be a long and painful journey to rebuild Terminal 3, fix Terminal 2, and connect them with the Bradley Terminal where it had some flights (as do partners), but in the end it would mean more gates for Delta.

Here’s a lay of the land so you can follow along as we go.

During the pandemic, Delta decided to shoot the moon. It saw traffic was down significantly, but it knew that created an opportunity. So, Delta accelerated its plans and knocked down/rebuilt Terminal 3 much faster than expected. It began to open in 2022 and was completely open — along with the behind-security connector to Bradley — in 2023. Delta now has 27 gates split between Terminals 2 and 3 (which will soon just be called Terminal 2).

Not only that, but it is now connected behind security to Bradley (which will become the new Terminal 3) where most of its joint venture partners operate. There, it also has its international arrivals — currently 7 or 8 per day — operate along with the flights that turn around to wherever those airplanes are going. It provides a nice overflow valve for the airline.

And that’s that. Delta is never quite fully done, but it has a new, modern terminal that works. It is now adding a new Delta One lounge in Terminal 2, and it will continue to invest. But its total summer operations of up to about 160 daily departures means that Delta can turn about six airplanes per day per gate (which doesn’t even include Bradley gates). There is room to grow in the existing footprint.

So, Delta has been making big gains, but meanwhile the other airlines are hampered from doing the same. First, let’s talk about United.

At this point, United is stuck in a corner at LAX, literally. In 2014, the previous management team at Continental United gave up four gates in Terminal 6, the old Continental gates, to consolidate in Terminals 7 and 8. This was a bad idea.

United has only 20 gates available in Terminals 7 and 8 (soon to all be called Terminal 7). It doesn’t use any gates in the Bradley Terminal, though all of its partners are there, far away from United. It did, however, start using a little space in Terminal 6 again, usually gate 68B for the widebodies. But that is a minor concession to the airline that has expressed interest in growing LAX under this management team. At the recent media day, we were reminded that United wants to be number one in LA. I’m not sure how that happens without more gates.

There was a plan to build a Terminal 9 which would not only allow United’s partners to leave Bradley but also give United more gates itself. That has been shelved indefinitely since the airport can’t justify the project based on current traffic predictions. United is stuck at 20 or 21, and it is not going to get more gates.

The only possible hope is for Alaska to relinquish some of its gates in Terminal 6. That seems unlikely, but then again, there is always a chance it could spill into Terminal 5 gates which are currently common-use. But we’ll talk about that more in a minute.

This brings us to American, which is in the throes of a massive and painful construction project which has left its operation scattered. Terminal 4 is being demolished and rebuilt in phases. So far, only the far end has been reopened with seven gates. There are also two gates in the base of the old terminal that remain in operation while the middle is being rebuilt.

There is also the remote Eagle’s Nest terminal which sits a lengthy bus ride to the east of the main terminal complex. This terminal has nine gate holdrooms that can only accomodate regional aircraft. I’m not sure American is even using all nine, but at least seven or eight are in operation.

As if that’s not enough, American had been operating four or five gates in Terminal 5 as well, but Terminal 5 has now been shuttered. It was demolished and will be rebuilt with 15 gates by 2028, of which American should have 10. In the meantime, American has been using gates in the Bradley terminal, but it is a challenging experience for travelers.

If we add up what American had been using before, it was at 15 (give or take) in Terminal 4, five in Terminal 5, and nine in the Eagle’s Nest for a total of 29. When the new terminals open, American will have 15 in Terminal 4, 10 in Terminal 5, and then presumably it will still use some gates in Bradley. The Eagle’s Nest will go away.

In the end, this doesn’t allow American to be any bigger than Delta. It also doesn’t increase the number of gates American has, though the airline will have more gates capable of supporting bigger airplanes. It will allow American to consolidate its operation in one place that just so happens to be right next to its partner Alaska. This kind of proximity will improve the passenger experience, of course, but it will also improve the ability to offer connections. If American wants to make a run at LAX — not that there has been any serious suggestion of that being the case — it is probably a couple years away.

Previously, Terminal 5 was also the home to JetBlue and Spirit. Spirit is gone, and JetBlue is currently operating in Terminal 1. It may not need to come back. So that means there is probably opportunity in Terminal 5. Could Alaska split its operation, which would allow United to get gates in T6 with its partner Air Canada? Or would United consider using T5 gates with a busing operation?

All we know is that American may have interest in growing LAX, United has a stated interest, and neither can do anything about it right now. You can be sure Delta knows that. There aren’t slots at LAX to constrain competition; that’s what gates do there. And for the next couple of years, Delta has a real advantage which it is going to put to good use. It’s not going to own LAX. Nobody will. But if it can add a few more points to its share then it should be pretty happy.

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Brett Avatar

78 responses to “It’s a Good Time for Delta To Try to Grow — But Not Win — LAX”

  1. GM Avatar
    GM

    Brett

    small typo in the section about UA consolidating, it should be in 8 and 7 not 6 and 7.

    1. Ryan Avatar
      Ryan

      Could AA push to acquire the remaining T5 gates and help AS with joint growth in T6 to constrain United?

  2. Matt D Avatar
    Matt D

    Construction at LAX is NEVER going to be finished, is it?

    Maybe that’s the real reason they took those lighted towers out. Their imagery is no longer appropriate.

    Just like how the orange road cone is the official state flower, a nod to every single freeway and highway in the state, perhaps the construction crane is going to be the icon of LAX to replace the towers, since I’m presuming that they will be there and highly visible for….forever to come.

    1. James Avatar
      James

      Yes! When will the $&@# train open? Seems like it’s been “6 months away from opening” for the past 5 years!

      1. Brett Avatar

        James – Well, current date is September 22 of this year, but it keeps slipping because of a dispute between LAWA and the contractor. It’s messy. And it’s obnoxious.

        1. Southside Emil Avatar
          Southside Emil

          Why couldn’t the Green Line go directly to the terminals like ORD and MDW?

          1. E175 Respecter Avatar
            E175 Respecter

            Long story short – a big part of this comes down to the siloed way infrastructure is paid for in this country. I believe this might have changed since this project began, but the DOT/FAA would not allow airport funding to be spent on a non-airport agency’s (LACMTA) “non-airport” Metro project such as the C/K Lines.

            It would have been really nice if the C/K lines had been built to take the detour into the LAX core, but this setup wouldn’t have served the new parking garages, new transit center (still needed for buses, shuttles, etc.), the new consolidated rental car center, new ride-share lot, and new exterior pickup/drop-off areas. Not to mention the disruption to the LAX core required to bring light rail trains into there which is unfortunately a lot more involved than the APMs that can be built up and over existing roadways and utilities.

            There are countless design decisions for LAX that would be different from a clean-sheet design, but I think when the SkyLink™ opens (Inshallah), it will remove a substantial amount of the existing hassles of the landside experience and ultimately won’t be all too different from many other large airports which also have a similar setup.

            At least they won’t be charging $8.75 for the privilege. ;)

        2. GM Avatar
          GM

          There also seems to be a major problem with the track switch leading into the maintenance building spur from the main track. From the live camera it looks like that might almost be fixed. Hopefully that is the last hurdle so they can get the 30 straight days of operation required for opening to the public.

        3. Anthony Avatar
          Anthony

          So you’re saying it won’t be open for the World Cup? Maybe it’ll open in time for the LA Olympics!

          1. GM Avatar
            GM

            Short answer, it will not. More detailed answer. Since May 18, work seems to be concentrating on the joint west of the maintenance compound access spur. It doesn’t appear to directly involve the switch, but both main power pickups have been wrapped in plastic to protect them from construction contamination. The 30 day clock won’t start until this section gets fixed. There probably will be an update provided at the June 18 BOAC meeting.

  3. See_Bee Avatar
    See_Bee

    Can some of the Angelenos on here comment about how they perceive loyalty of locals? It’s my understanding that AA has lingering loyalty at LAX, especially with corporate accounts & Hollywood types, but surely that is starting to fade post-COVID

    I imagine this is similar to how NYC played out over the last ~15 years: AA was clinging on to loyalty in the NYC area but it finally reached a tipping point where DL surged ahead due to various reasons (i.e., AA’s slow deprioritization, DL capacity & facility build-up across JFK & LGA, DL prioritization of stealing corporate share from AA, etc.)

    1. Jim David Avatar
      Jim David

      As a local, my loyalty to Southwest ended recently with all the changes. Now, its Alaska/Hawaiian. Booked a cheaper flight on AA thru AS, never again. Not only is T4 an absolute disaster, but A321 First hard product is dismal. Tried UA recently, and I like it. DL is always the most expensive and less convenient schedule for my frequent Hawaii flights. New T3 is not that great, baggage claim area is worst in the whole airport.

    2. bzcat Avatar
      bzcat

      AA’s loyalty at LAX largely derived from its dominance of corporate accounts, especially media companies where all the major studios and talent agencies used it because it was the last one to offered transcon first class (many legacy employment and talent agreements required first class). I know many people that used to go out of their way to fly AA as a point of vanity (and utilizing those SWU). I count myself as one of those that benefited from that ecosystem as I flew LAX-JFK, LAX-MIA, LAX-LHR a lot earlier in my career and AA was a no-brainer go to choice.

      But that dominance started to fall before COVID when DL started aggressively poaching corporate accounts and beefing up LAX as Brett noted. After COVID, AA decided to pursuit LCC-like strategy while DL and UA pivoted towards catering to front cabin flyers so things started to shift. The final nail in the coffin is when AA launched its disastrous war on its corporate clients and travel agents, plus the nonsensical focus (from LAX-point of view) on sunbelt cities. Pretty much all the goodwill AA had in LA region is gone now days and people in LA talk about AA as barely a step up from Spirit. Not many people flying in the front cabin still go out of their way to fly AA. In fact, I would say more people go out of their way to avoid AA than to fly AA.

      1. Bill from DC Avatar
        Bill from DC

        So in this one (and possibly only) example, LA is just like the rest of the world!

        Great comment, I forgot about the Hollywood AA connection. That FlAAgship lounge must be empty all the time!

  4. Tim Dunn Avatar
    Tim Dunn

    It is even harder to define “win” than it has to define “dominate” but it is certainly true that, even if just because of facilities at LAX, DL has an opportunity over the next few years that it has never had – and that others can’t match over the next 3-5 years.

    Keep in mind that AA started to pull down its LAX network even before it started rebuilding its facilities so, while the AA crowd wants to believe that AA will become the market share leader again at some point after new facilities open, there is actually pretty little evidence that happens in the US airline industry.
    UA’s terminal situation at LAX is a more significant bottleneck for them esp. because they don’t have access to TBIT as AA and DL do in at least some form.

    The bigger issue is that DL has since stated beyond simply saying it intended to grow LAX that it intends to challenge UA on the Pacific – which is a pretty audacious statement given that DL is half the size of UA TPAC right now.
    The LAX international market is huge and while no carrier has ever succeeded at maintaing a competitvely large size, AA’s most recent attempt had too much focus on China and long S. America flights, the latter of which Latam now does for DL. It is noteworthy that DL and UA now fly LAX-HKG while AA doesn’t even serve the home of one of its founding alliance partners.

    DL already has the largest domestic share at LAX and a west coast hub at SEA that doesn’t really compete for the same California local traffic while UA at SFO relies on LAX as a major feeder market. DL also is the largest US carrier to E. Asia outside of CA and it will certainly build on that with JFK and potentially ATL and BOS and maybe some more DTW flights.

    The biggest factors in DL’s favor are that the KE/OZ merger/acquisition is nearing its end and there will be capacity between KE and OZ that has to be “rationalized” which will create opportunities for DL to add flights on its own metal to ICN, to add new DL metal flights elsewhere in E. Asia that will be part of the JV, and for DL and/or KE to add flights to cities in the US that have no service to E. Asia on any carrier; there will certainly be strong incentives when that starts to become reality and no other alliance will be able to do it.

    DL’s TPAC fleet is almost entirely A350 and the arrival of the A350-1000 in the next six months or so will give DL by far the most capable and efficient TPAC fleet, well suited to compete against Asian airlnes that have lower labor costs.

    and DL’s biggest advantage is financial; they have a strong track record of building hubs using their industry-leading finances. Growth at their other hubs is slowing while results are improving and the refinery is certain to give DL a cost advantage for as long as the Middle East mess keeps going.

    Winning might be hard to define but it is certain that DL will cut UA’s lead over the Pacific in the next few years.

  5. Tim Dunn Avatar
    Tim Dunn

    It is even harder to define “win” than it has to define “dominate” but it is certainly true that, even if just because of facilities at LAX, DL has an opportunity over the next few years that it has never had – and that others can’t match over the next 3-5 years.

    Keep in mind that AA started to pull down its LAX network even before it started rebuilding its facilities so, while the AA crowd wants to. believe that AA will become the market share leader again at some point after new facilities open although that has not often happened in the US airline industry.
    UA’s terminal situation at LAX is a more significant bottleneck for them esp. because they don’t have access to TBIT as AA and DL do in at least some form.

    The bigger issue is that DL has since stated beyond simply saying it intended to grow LAX that it intends to challenge UA on the Pacific – which is a pretty audacious statement given that DL is half the size of UA TPAC right now.
    The LAX international market is huge and while no carrier has ever succeeded at maintaining a competitively large size, AA’s most recent attempt had too much focus on China. It is noteworthy that DL and UA now fly LAX-HKG while AA doesn’t even serve the home of one of its founding alliance partners.

    DL is certain to add some LAX domestic flights and what it lacks are predominantly other airline hubs.

    DL already has the largest domestic share at LAX and a west coast hub at SEA that doesn’t really compete for the same California local traffic while UA at SFO relies on LAX as a major feeder market. DL also is the largest US carrier to E. Asia outside of CA and it will certainly build on that with JFK and potentially ATL and BOS and maybe some more DTW flights.

    The biggest factors in DL’s favor are that the KE/OZ merger/acquisition is nearing its end and there will be capacity between KE and OZ that has to be “rationalized” which will create opportunities for DL to add flights on its own metal to ICN, to add new DL metal flights elsewhere in E. Asia that will be part of the JV, and for DL and/or KE to add flights to cities in the US that have no service to E. Asia on any carrier; there will certainly be strong incentives when that starts to become reality and no other alliance will be able to do it.

    DL’s TPAC fleet is almost entirely A350 and the arrival of the A350-1000 in the next six months or so will give DL by far the most capable and efficient TPAC fleet, well suited to compete against Asian airlnes that have lower labor costs.

    and DL’s biggest advantage is financial; they have a strong track record of building hubs using their industry-leading finances. Growth at their other hubs is slowing while results are improving and the refinery is certain to give DL a cost advantage for as long as the Middle East mess keeps going.

    Winning might be hard to define but it is certain that DL will cut UA’s lead over the Pacific in the next few years.

    1. 1990 Avatar
      1990

      Well, at least you fixed a few typos in the second post. LOL.

  6. Bobby Avatar
    Bobby

    Correct me if I’m wrong but 68B is one of 4 gates owned by Air Canada?

    1. GM Avatar
      GM

      I believe 68B is one of two common use gates at T6. AS has preferred use at 13 of the 15 gate.

      1. VSP Avatar
        VSP

        UA has been using 68B for their late night departures to PEK & HKG. There was a recent post on LAWA.org regarding future gate allocations @LAX which shows UA with 25 gates across 3 terminals and I guess 4 of those might be in T-6 with AS moving some their flights to T-5.

      2. VSP Avatar
        VSP

        UA has been using 68B for their late night departures to PEK & HKG. There was a recent post on LAWA.org regarding future gate allocations @LAX which shows UA with 25 gates across 3 terminals and I guess 4 of those might be in T-6 with AS moving some their flights to T-5.

        1. Tory Avatar

          Would love to see a link if you can find it? 25 gates would be very competitive with Delta’s 27.

    2. Jim David Avatar
      Jim David

      68B is one of the international gates with access to Immigration and Customs. UA uses it frequently for that reason when gates 74 and 77 at T7 are in use. Canadian arrivals do not go thru Immigration here, cleared in Canada.

      1. Andie Avatar
        Andie

        I think gate 76A is also designated as a widebody CBP-capable gate

  7. Grichard Avatar
    Grichard

    Is there, realistically, any economic value specific to being “#1” in a contested city? This doesn’t seem obvious to me.

    Obviously having a fortress hub gives pricing power. And obviously there are scheduling advantages and economies of scale with bigger operations. But if ABC airline has 250 departure/day, is it any better or worse off if XYZ has 200 vs 300?

    1. See_Bee Avatar
      See_Bee

      It can help with corporate accounts, which are higher yielding customers. It makes it easier to walk into a large corporation and say “our 250 flights cover 85% of your passenger needs while the competitors 200 flights only cover 70%. Therefore, we’d like an outsized share of your employee’s flying”

      That might seem drastic but consider that DL just started flying LAX-ORD, a huge corporate market. Adding that one route probably made them a whole lot more useful to a handful of corporate accounts

      1. Tim Dunn Avatar
        Tim Dunn

        very true. the S curve might not be able to be as big in a market like LAX but there is still an S curve for corporate accounts. DL has carried the most corp travel for a number of years.

        and the real question of what DL might add is not the international markets – which have been leaked or specificially cited by DL execs – but rather the domestic markets they add. The domination of the LAX market is how well each of the big 4 “dominate – significantly higher shares than any other carrier” many of their hub markets from LAX. ORD is a good example of a major market that DL decided it had to be in but there are a number of AA and UA hub markets from LAX where DL has a fairly small share, if they serve the markets nonstop at all

      2. Eric R Avatar
        Eric R

        It does help “sell” corporate accounts.

        The challenge for the airlines is that the agreements are never exclusive and often don’t have any minimum usage requirements. Therefore, it can result in a quick win by the airline when signing a corporate agreement, but if usage (butts in seats) doesn’t follow through – or the seats are heavily discounted (corporate rates), the route goes by the wayside like we often see.

    2. Brett Avatar

      Grichard – There is increasing importance to being #1, actually. Just look at Chicago to see how United distancing itself from American has helped it to increase local traffic and get higher fares. But the “increasing” part is that it makes the credit card more attractive as well. That’s not something that has been a factor until recently, but it’s such a huge money-maker now that it makes a BIG difference for airlines in their hubs.

  8. SEAN Avatar
    SEAN

    As these terminals increase in gate capacity, how will the numbering system change? The numbering system was simple outside of TBIT, T2 was 20-29 + an extension A, B etc. Can’t imagine renumbering all the gates like JFK did decades ago or going the EWR/ MKE/ PIT route & jus using continuous numbering.

    1. Brett Avatar

      SEAN – I don’t think numbering is even going to change. T1 stays as is. T2/3 becomes T2, but there’s no reason to change the gate numbers. TBIT (Bradley) becomes T3 but it will presumably continue with the 100 and 200 gate numbers that it has today. I guess they could change to 300 but probably doesn’t matter. Then T4/T5/T6/T7 have no changes. T8 just becomes part of T7, so I don’t imagine they’ll renumber that either. If they do renumber, then everything would have to go to 3 digits.

      1. SEAN Avatar
        SEAN

        Thanks Brett, just curious as the current gate set up is easy to follow.

        1. Brett Avatar

          leol – Thank you! I stand corrected.

          1. SEAN Avatar
            SEAN

            Yes, thanks leol. I realized this since the current alpha numeric set up won’t work with the current terminal consolidation plan.

  9. Angry Bob Crandall Avatar
    Angry Bob Crandall

    Why do airlines continue to use recycled ideas (that have always failed) on how to be the 800 pound gorilla at LAX?

    1. See_Bee Avatar
      See_Bee

      I don’t completely disagree, but the dynamics are a little different than in the past. The industry is more consolidated. Facilities are more conducive to ~2 dominant carriers. I don’t think the result is an 800 lb gorilla but rather 2 400 lb gorillas (think ORD dynamic)

      1. SEAN Avatar
        SEAN

        Although at ORD, one is 300lbs & the other is 500 lbs.

  10. SEAN Avatar
    SEAN

    As these terminals increase in gate capacity, how will the numbering system change? The numbering system was simple outside of TBIT, T2 was 20-29 + an extension A, B etc. Can’t imagine renumbering all the gates like JFK did decades ago or going the EWR/ MKE/ PIT route & jus using continuous numbering.

  11. Southside Emil Avatar
    Southside Emil

    CF,
    Does LAX have any gates for a new entrant(s)? It doesn’t seem like it.

    1. GM Avatar
      GM

      There are gates. The gates are in TBIT West. Not a great address at the airport cause of the long walk, but there are gates.

    2. Brett Avatar

      Southside – Yep, as GM says. The midfield satellite concourse has gates available, and actually, the rest of Bradley does too depending upon time of day. When construction is done, Bradley will have a lot more gate space open as AA shifts out. And T5 will have 5 common use gates available as well. They actually are so confident they don’t need gates anytime soon that they canceled the Concourse 0 and Terminal 9 project indefinitely. (It may come back some day.)

  12. abcdefg Avatar
    abcdefg

    Gee I wonder why Scott Kirby would want to merge with AA….

  13. Carl Avatar
    Carl

    The Jeff Smisek administration made so many unforced errors during its reign – but the pullback in LAX and abandoning JFK are by far the biggest.

    1. Bobber Avatar
      Bobber

      Unforced…?? Or was he a secret agent…?

  14. 1990 Avatar
    1990

    I love the “Cats and Dogs” dividers on the map! Bahaha!

  15. Eric R Avatar
    Eric R

    That 2014 gate deal with UA was considered a significant gain for AA during the LAWA gate cap era. I thought as part of this deal, UA picked up some AA gates elsewhere (was it BOS?).

    The flights using the T6 gates were mostly from the former US Airways hubs (PHX, PHL, PIT, CLT). The rationale behind this was that these flights contained the smallest amount of LAX connecting passengers. Therefore, it lessened the need to be located next to the other AA gates in T4.

    1. VSP Avatar
      VSP

      I believe UA traded their 4 ex-CO gates @LAX T-6 in exchange for AA’s ex-US gates at ORD T-3 Satellite G.

  16. Ron Avatar
    Ron

    Does T2 still have an international arrivals facility?

    1. Brett Avatar

      Ron – I believe the space is still there, but it isn’t being used. Delta, LATAM, and Virgin Atlantic depart from T2 but arrivals from international locations all come to Bradley. Only WestJet runs international arrivals in T2, and that’s because of preclearance in Canada.

  17. MRY-SMF Avatar
    MRY-SMF

    Cranky, is there room for Bread Airlines at LAX? I think it’s your made up airline that sponsored one of your podcasts a while back.

  18. southbay flier Avatar
    southbay flier

    So, Smisek sold slots in NYC and gates in LAX without the thread of a looming bankruptcy? How did he ever become an airline CEO in the first place?

  19. HkCaGu Avatar
    HkCaGu

    I thought when they renamed TBIT to Terminal B, it was to prevent Bass from getting a terminal named after her. But now they’re banishing Bradley too?

    1. SEAN Avatar
      SEAN

      Nah, you’re just off Bass.

    2. bzcat Avatar
      bzcat

      They are not changing the name of the terminal per se. Brett was slightly mistaken on the plan. There is no decision on renaming TBIT to T3 only the gate numbering will change so it is in sequence

  20. bzcat Avatar
    bzcat

    Brett nailed the gate space as the number 1 constrain on airline growth at LAX. DL is definitely well positioned to grow capacity in the short term which will give them more bargaining power with LAWA on future preferential use of TBIT gates (not saying they will get it but you rather have the leverage than not).

    AA is in construction hell right now but this is just another example of the poor management this airline is under… they just keep making DL management look like genius to do the terminal rebuild during COVID. Post T5 construction, AA will have a lot of gates but I remain skeptical that AA will have a coherent strategy to use all the real estate unless there is new management. The S curve is working against AA so to bounce back, they have to add a ton of flights both domestic and international. Raise your hand if you can visualize the current AA management adding inspired destination and launching routes from LAX that make you want to fly with AA? Anyone? Anyone?

    UA not in close proximity to its Star partners is not that big of a deal in my opinion. LAX is the biggest O&D airport in the world so while having T9 is nice it’s not a deal breaker. UA should do whatever it take to get access to the common use T5 gates. Post T5 construction, T7 and T5 will be connected at the concourse level so while it is a bit of a hike, it is not that bad. If UA let someone else gain access to T5, they will never be able to beat DL.

    AS is the king maker at LAX. They can decide to help AA and grow LAX as more dominant OneWorld hub, or they can decide to accommodate UA and gate swap T5/T6 to give UA better ops. I like the hands they have to play.

    WN is an enigma. They still dominate SoCal-NoCal traffic but not LAX specifically. Unless WN really want to expand Mexico flying big time, I don’t see them increasing the share at LAX that much.

    1. Carl Avatar
      Carl

      AS/ AA transfers are easier and closer if AS moves to T5. That’s also closer for AS arrivals from Mexico and Costa Rica using TBIT

      There are itineraries for sale with a transfer between the airlines at LAX that warrant locating them closer

      1. tcchoi Avatar
        tcchoi

        AS international arrival actually use T6 immigration facility, so moving terminal would not necessarily make it more convenience.

        1. Jim David Avatar
          Jim David

          T6 FIS is also a UA advantage not mentioned. Also, Air Canada is a UA partner, which makes those connections super easy, as T6 and T7/8 are connected behind security. BTW, T8 was never actually a terminal, just a concourse attached to T7 headhouse.

        2. Oliver Avatar
          Oliver

          I have more than once arrived from México at TBIT because T6 immigration was closed (in the last five years). It was a huge pain to connect to another AS flight in T6. Have they expanded the hours that the T6 FIS is open?

        3. Carl Avatar
          Carl

          My experience in arriving at LAX on an Alaska international flight from Costa Rica or Mexico has been inconsistent, but I have been sent to TBIT to clear FIS more often than I have actually cleared at the T6/T7 FIS facility. I don’t know if it’s because of limited hours or staffing. It wouldn’t surprise me if UA pays CBP to operate during the hours when UA has arrivals, and Alaska doesn’t want to pay. The experience has included arriving at a TBIT gate, and arriving at a T6 gate and being bused over to TBIT for FIS processing. Not very convenient if you are connecting onward from T6.

          On the whole I think AS would benefit from being located closer to AA because there are mixed connections that both airlines sell, and it would put AS domestic connections closer to where it seems at least some AS international flights arrive.

          1. Jim David Avatar
            Jim David

            Limited hours. T6 FIS operates 10:00 to 18:00. UA pays.

  21. Mark Avatar
    Mark

    If the common use gates don’t go to AS or UA, who would they go to?

    Would AA be able to use them, or would they have to go to an airline that has less gates?

    What does the allocation process look like?

    Would new entrants or ULCCs be interested in growth at LAX, considering the high CPE there?

    1. Brett Avatar

      Mark – Common use gates don’t go to anyone. Airlines would request space on those gates and be granted it if available at the times they needed. I’m pretty sure new entrants would have little interest. Breeze is already there and has been cutting back. Allegiant left, though Sun Country still flies to MSP. Spirit is obviously gone. Frontier is there and has grown, but I don’t think it makes much sense.

      1. Mark Avatar
        Mark

        Thanks Brett.

        So if AA, DL, UA, AS all request common use gates, is it first come, first served, does they go to whoever has the lowest number of gates, would LAWA give each airline a portion of what they request, or is a different set of criteria used?

        1. Brett Avatar

          Mark – I?m not sure what the exact process is, but you don?t request gates. You request times on gates based on scheduled flights. If United wanted to use gates in the Bradley midfield concourse, I?m guessing it could submit schedules and request times. But that doesn?t make any sense. When the T5 gates open, I would think that JetBlue might have some sort of grandfather rights since it was there before it was knocked down, but I don?t actually know that.

  22. Tory Avatar

    Thinking outside the box question for you Brett: if UA wanted to do something ‘quick and cheap’, could it build a walkway over the road from T8 to the other side, and then have tarmac-loading RJs parked there, maybe a little similar to how LGB works? The tarmac looks pretty empty there on Google Maps satellite view. That would seem like the easy equivalent of 4-6 gates. No need for a full Terminal 9. And LA weather is perfect for tarmac walking – it works fine for LGB.

  23. PSC Avatar
    PSC

    Are the gates UA handed off to AA in 2014 a permanent handoff? Could UA get them back ever? Similarly to the EWR/JFK swp with DL, should UA be able to get those gates back in the 2030s?

    1. Anthony Avatar
      Anthony

      United swapped gates with Delta at JFK and EWR? When?

      1. Carl Avatar
        Carl

        UA and DL swapped slots, not gates. That was a colossal mistake and own goal by UA. JFK was (and is) slot controlled. At the time EWR was slot controlled, too. UA under Smisek thought he could consolidate service at EWR and not lose customers. UA’s JFK slots went to DL, and UA picked up some DL slots at EWR. Not long after that, slot controls ended at EWR so UA gained mostly nothing.

    2. Brett Avatar

      PSC – Those gates are either Alaska’s for good or common use. United doesn’t get that back at some point, not without a negotiation of some sort.

  24. Brett Avatar

    Tory – Nope, can?t do it. I think. But maybe? The airport entered into an agreement with surrounding communities that has expired, but I believe it now limits where development can occur. I’m not sure that this area would be possible. I’m gonna ask LAWA about that now. I’m assuming it’s a non-starter for some reason or another.

    1. Tory Avatar

      Are you essentially saying Terminal 9 is illegal now?? (it would be in roughly the same area)

      Thanks for checking into it. Please let me/us know what you find out!

      1. Bill from DC Avatar
        Bill from DC

        I’m curious about that too

      2. Brett Avatar

        Tory – No, I think there was a process in place to make that happen, but whether it already happened or if it was canceled as part of the T9 project, I don’t know. I could also be completely wrong. LAWA has not responded to me at all, which is frustrating.

        1. GM Avatar
          GM

          The old DL gse building sits across Sepulveda from T8. LAWA has greenlighted and funded the demolition of that building an turning the area into RON parking. Not sure if they would allow anything other than emergency ground boarding at that location though

  25. Carl Anderson Avatar
    Carl Anderson

    Does anyone here know the status of the T2 FIS facilities? Everything seems to have gone quite after the flooding incident. Did it just cost too much to rebuild?

  26. Dale Avatar
    Dale

    No one will “win” LAX. Which I think is good for those of us in the Southland who want to travel.

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