We’ve Talked About Fort Lauderdale, But Opportunities Abound Elsewhere


This is the last post I’m writing on Spirit’s demise directly, but you know you want more. So, head to The Air Show and listen to this week’s episode where we talk about the government’s role in Spirit’s demise. No, this isn’t political. It spans multiple administrations led by both sides of the aisle. Just listen for yourself.


One of the big benefits to the airline industry of Spirit having failed is the reduction in capacity. Sure, it’s not a huge amount — in April according to Cirium, Spirit had 3.1 percent of total domestic capacity and 2.2 percent of all capacity departing the US — but every bit helps when you are trying to raise fares in the face of the high jet fuel prices caused by the war in Iran. Still, as we discussed on Tuesday regarding Fort Lauderdale, that doesn’t mean there aren’t opportunities for airlines to backfill to further their strategies. Today, I want to talk about some of those other opportunities.

Detroit

Listeners to The Air Show know that I love this market as an opportunity for Sun Country and have for a long time. The similiarities between DTW and MSP are clear. According to Cirium, in the first three months of the year, Delta had 71.4 percent of all seats departing Detroit and 72.0 percent of all seats departing Minneapolis/St Paul to the western hemisphere. Number two in Detroit was Spirit with 9.9 percent, and number two in MSP was Sun Country at 11.7 percent.

Frontier has already made some growth moves in Detroit, and it said on its earnings call this week that Detroit was one of the five markets in which it had a particular interest. But in Q1 to the western hemisphere, Frontier had only built to 3.9 percent of departing seats from there and only 1.5 percent in MSP. There is still opportunity there and Sun Country should take it.

Of course, Sun Country is now just about officially a part of Allegiant, so this requires Allegiant to decide it’s worth doing. It also has to hope that this move doesn’t anger Delta so much that it rains fire in both hubs. But Delta has to know that there will be a low-fare carrier in both markets. If it can get one that it knows the playbook versus a wildcard like Frontier, it might just feel more comfortable.

The bigger question is whether Allegiant will be willing to make this move. If it doesn’t, then Frontier is probably next in line.

New York LaGuardia

The situation in New York is more challenging mostly because it’s not entirely clear to me when the ownership of slots technically ends, when they can be reallocated, and how the process will go down. At LaGuardia in summer 2025, Spirit held 12 departure slots and 10 arrival slots per day. If you assume that the last two arrivals happen late enough to not need slots, you’re effectively looking at 12 slot pairs. Spirit was also leasing a couple other slots, I assume, since it had more flights than slots. Further, Spirit was the one airline flying out of the Marine Air Terminal (now Terminal A) at LaGuardia, so there’s a whole turnkey operation ready to go. Who might be interested?

I have to think Frontier is going to raise its hand. It only holds four daily slot pairs, but it leases others and flies about twice as many. You could imagine Frontier being an easy sell to regulators since it’s a small carrier with low fares. If the goal is to improve competition at a jam-packed airport, then you can’t give it to Delta and American. Southwest will probably take a swing as well, because, why not? Sure, JetBlue is an option, but I don’t see why JetBlue would bother putting capacity there when Fort Lauderdale is the most important project by far. Breeze? Allegiant? I mean, never say never.

Newark

Across the rivers at Newark, it is a different story. Of course, that airport has runway timings, so it’s a different process than slots. But Spirit had eight percent of departing seats to the western hemisphere and was number two at the airport, so there is opportunity. Again, I would think Frontier might have the inside track, but both Allegiant+Sun Country and Breeze are in this airport already, so perhaps they would like to grow. Again, I think JetBlue is unlikely. It doesn’t have spare capacity, but also, it has its Blue Sky partnership with United which allows TrueBlue customers to earn when flying out of Newark anyway.

Orlando

I expect the Orlando market to be hotly-contested, and really, it already has been. Southwest took no time in announcing new service from Orlando in the wake of Spirit’s failure. Southwest already had nearly a quarter of all MCO departures followed by Delta at 12 percent, Frontier at 11 percent, and Spirit just over 10 percent. Southwest wants to grow its share, and it isn’t waiting around.

Who else might be interested? A lot of airlines, no doubt. Orlando is one of Frontier’s largest cities, and you have to assume that this will be a priority for the airline. Breeze is going to want to grow here as well, and don’t even count out Delta which might increase capacity as a defensive stance.

If there’s one airline I don’t expect to participate it’s JetBlue. JetBlue is a big player here at 9.2 percent, so you’d think it might care. But Orlando’s importance is nothing compared to Fort Lauderdale’s. If JetBlue has extra aircraft, I would assume they will be diverted to Fort Lauderdale and not wasted here.

Las Vegas

Vegas is a funny market. Spirit used to matter, but by the end, it barely did. In Q1, Southwest had 43 percent of departing seats with Frontier at 8.2 percent and Spirit down at 3.5 percent. Just as it did in Orlando, Southwest quickly announced it would add flights in Vegas. Frontier will probably do that as well, but it’s already the dominant ULCC there and likely doesn’t have a lot to gain. My guess is it wants to focus growth more elsewhere while Southwest continues to consolidate its power.

Atlantic City

For years, Spirit was the only airline in Atlantic City. This was one of the airline’s largest operations back in the day, and it always performed well. But as Spirit’s future became murkier, both Allegiant and Breeze moved into the market. Once Spirit failed, Breeze jumped in quickly and added Fort Myers, Myrtle Beach, Orlando, and West Palm Beach service. Now, every market Spirit served from ACY has flights from Allegiant or Breeze except for Miami, and that’s not an airport that necessarily needs backfilling.

Admittedly, Atlantic City wasn’t one of the markets even on my radar in all of this shuffling, but once I saw Breeze make its move, it instantly became one of my favorite backfill efforts. This is a perfect market for Breeze, and it should do well.

Myrtle Beach

This market is a lot like Atlantic City, a secondary leisure destination with some local demand. American is the biggest airline in this market, but Spirit had nearly 20 percent of seats so there is a big hole there. Breeze already has more than 13 percent of seats, so I imagine we will continue to see it grow even beyond the Atlantic City flight it just added. Allegiant also has about five percent of seats, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see more there as well. This one probably isn’t a Frontier market.

Dallas/Fort Worth

I don’t think I’d even bother writing up DFW if not for Frontier’s earnings call where it named DFW as one of the five airports where it was focusing its Spirit-backfill efforts. Frontier had already surpassed Spirit in the area with Q1 seeing Frontier at 4 percent of departing seats while Spirit was at 2.3 percent. But Frontier has wanted to grow there, and all of a sudden, there are gates available right next door to its own. So it’ll grow modestly there, and it will probably look to do something similar at Atlanta, Chicago/O’Hare, and Houston/IAH. I don’t expect this to be a huge focus, but if there’s an opportunity to grow a little, Frontier will probably do it.


In the end, I hope that airlines will not completely backfill Spirit’s capacity. That’s not what the industry needs right now. But there are certainly holes that can be filled, and each airline has probably set its priorities long ago. We’ll now see that strategy unfold.

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Brett Avatar

66 responses to “We’ve Talked About Fort Lauderdale, But Opportunities Abound Elsewhere”

  1. Mike (dontflymuch) Avatar
    Mike (dontflymuch)

    On Detroit and MSP. Not only does Delta hold the obvious advantage there, but they hold the nicest terminal facilities by far, relagating ULCCs to inferior facilities. My guess Delta sees that in itsself as a firewall that makes a price war unnecessary.

    1. southbay flier Avatar
      southbay flier

      I feel like if you are going to fly an ULCC, you probably don’t care about how nice the terminal is.

  2. Greg Avatar
    Greg

    LGA is an interesting one not just for the slots, but as you note briefly the terminal operations will be an additional constraint to contend with given that 1) there are no other carriers operating out of Terminal A today, 2) Terminal A is completely isolated today with only 6 gates, and 3) Terminal A is in desperate need of renovation which PANYNJ finally have a plan to move forward on (A has had major flooding issues and remains the only unrenovated terminal at LGA).

    As Jason Rabinowitz noted on Bluesky, that renovation, which has no firm dates, is supposed to unveil some sort of walkable connection to Terminal B, but even so I cannot imagine a world in which that any of the larger carriers requiring an A-B transfer at LGA would be a desirable experience. Which only leaves the smaller existing carriers or new carriers you note like Breeze or Allegiant. But why would either of those invest in LGA rather than focus on expanding in EWR…?

    For existing carriers, that basically leaves only Frontier (~5 slot pairs in 2025) or Porter (3 pairs) as small enough to relocate to the Marine Air Terminal and grow into it a bit, vacating some additional capacity in Terminal B for United to probably fight off others to pick up? I could even envision a mini ORD redux as Kirby continues to try to poke AA in the eye with a stick on major markets that AA has slowly ceded to competitors over the past decade. Maybe he even incentivizes Frontier to make the move in order to do so. I’d love to see Porter move in and invest as stylistically they would fit well in the Marine Air Terminal, but IIRC they have scaled back their US operations rather than up due to lower cross-border demand, so that seems less likely.

    1. Eric R Avatar
      Eric R

      Are you sure there are plans for a walkway from Terminal A to B? There is a runway in the middle and building a walkway around the south end of the runway seems unlikely in my mind for the few who would even need to use it.

      1. Greg Avatar
        Greg

        DAMN, I misread the source – you’re right. Not connecting A, which seemed wild to me as well. Agreed on the usability of any connection they could make.

        1. NedsKid Avatar
          NedsKid

          I think maybe there is an effort to make a way to actually walk streetside between the two. You kinda-sorta can now but it isn’t easy and isn’t signed. I’ve been on the connector bus between MAT and the central terminal many times where the driver has slowed down and picked up people walking down Runway Drive by the front of the AA hangar dragging suitcases trying to figure out how to get across the big intersection there and across to the front of terminal B.

          The bus between that exists today really is easy and isn’t bad. I will miss flying Spirit into the MAT when going to NYC as you can’t beat being from airplane seat to sitting in a city bus in 2 minutes flat.

          1. Bill from DC Avatar
            Bill from DC

            I miss flying DL into the MAT! You’d think the right airline could run a nice little niche op out of there.

            1. NedsKid Avatar
              NedsKid

              Fun fact: When DL ran the shuttle from the MAT, its internal station code was QNY. Completely separate work group from the main Delta terminal. It had one of the highest seniorities of any station in the system. It was known as “the country club.” Mostly frequent flyers who knew what they were doing, very few checked bags, flights that usually were kept on time as a priority, easier to come & go from work, etc.

          2. Anthony Avatar
            Anthony

            I miss when JetBlue operated from MAT. I lived in Astoria and routinely took the LGA-BOS 0930 departure. Requested my Uber pick-up at 0845, and still had time to grab a DD coffee post-security.

            1. Bill from DC Avatar
              Bill from DC

              hopefully they will again. as I surmised and you confirmed, it would be a great differentiator

    2. George Avatar
      George

      Porter would be a bad fit. Too many customers connecting to AA.

  3. Chris in Columbia Avatar
    Chris in Columbia

    Brett – what is going on with BWI? Spirit is done, it appears Southwest has reduced capacity while it also appears Frontier has slightly increased capacity and JetBlue is returning though with flights initially only to FLL and SJU. The airport is user friendly, has available gate space and is located in the middle of one of the most affluent markets in the United States. Any idea why the limited love in this airport, from both domestic and international airlines, for this airport?

    1. Jason Avatar
      Jason

      BWI looks like WN will be taking over gate C2,C4 and C6 as the airport will relocate some airlines around to accommodate WN future growth plans. Eventually by 2030 WN supposed to take over the entire C concourse. WN will have some more longer stage flights coming to BWI summer 2027 when the MAX7 delivers start arriving regularly in February 2027.

    2. Brett Avatar

      Chris in Columbia – Spirit just wasn’t that big in BWI anyway. It actually has a lot of similarities with Oakland. When Southwest dominates an airport, it tends to not leave much oxygen for everyone else. Besides, Frontier is more focused on Philly historically which isn’t all that far away. I just don’t expect much in BWI outside of Southwest.

      1. NedsKid Avatar
        NedsKid

        Spirit never came back to BWI in as big a way post-Covid. Prior to COVID, NK was scheduled up to 45 flights a day. They had 4 leased gates and shared 3 or 4 common use (only one that really used 3 of those) with up to 5 RON aircraft plus 3 morning redeye arrivals. After COVID, just didn’t recover to anywhere near that level. Backfill already was done by Southwest and Frontier.

    3. Mike (dontflymuch) Avatar
      Mike (dontflymuch)

      southwest didn’t reduce capacity in BWI other than to adjust to a concourse being under construction. in fact they were one of the few airports where they added routes and capacity in 2026.

    4. Atiya Avatar
      Atiya

      Didn’t Maryland politicians run Avelo out of town a few months ago?

      1. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        They still show New Haven and Wilmington (NC) as seasonal. Not much of a presence.

      2. Bill from DC Avatar
        Bill from DC

        I don’t think the state of Maryland or Southwest is concerned with twice weekly flights to towns Southwest doesn’t even serve. call it a hunch!

    5. MarylandDavid Avatar
      MarylandDavid

      WN hasn’t reduced capacity, unless it’s reduced the number of flights to cities it already serves. If anything it’s added at BWI. As pointed out, Spirit used to occupy a strong #2 there behind WN. Frontier is kind of fulfilling that role now and if they can somehow stay financially viable, I would expect selective growth especially on popular routes where WN is the only player.

  4. Sam Avatar
    Sam

    For the sake of other airlines still flying, I hope most of Spirit’s routes don’t get back-filled. I always felt like a fundamental flaw of Spirit’s model was (considering how many multi-airport metros they served) they were almost always the 3rd, 4th, or 5th airline in a market.

    The network just never made sense to me. Sure, they might have only been the 2nd airline on CHS-EWR, but they were 1 of 5 on CHS-NYC. Same with South Florida, DC Area, Chicago, Dallas, etc. (you could even stretch and put Boston area & Central Florida in this bucket). From the outside looking in, they seemed to over-index on individual airports as distinct markets rather than metro areas. Especially considering travelers willing to pay a premium for their preferred airport within a metro probably weren’t flying Spirit. Wanna make sure you can never charge more than a $69 base fare? Go be the airline with the worst schedule, service, and product in a market with multiple other airlines already flying it.

    Side note: this is probably why Detroit was one of the only good markets for them… it was about the only place where they were the obviously #2 in the whole metro area… not just at a single airport.

    1. See_Bee Avatar
      See_Bee

      This is a large reason why they failed IMO. NK upgauged to A321s which are harder to fill in niche markets and forced them to compete in higher demand markets where the legacies play. It’s hard to find pockets of success when you’re #4 in a market and the legacies have basic economy to fight back

  5. CactusJ Avatar
    CactusJ

    I’d love a long article on what is happening at OAK. I think NK left years ago. but so did everyone else.

    1. SandyCreek Avatar
      SandyCreek

      To my understanding, OAK is one of many casualties in spirit’s west coast shrinking following the first bankruptcy, and being a spoke with services to LAS and SAN only it wasn’t that important of a destination in the first place. I can’t tell you the exact sequence of what happened at OAK but it appears to be a combination of:
      – east bay and downtown SF in relatively worse shape following covid;
      – southwest shrinking in favor of SFO and SJC;
      – international (e.g. virgin Atlantic to LHR) not returning.

      My one time flying spirit was a OAK-SAN round trip, and it was a typical ULCC experience with a ~45 minute delay per flight (alas). At $99 for both flights though, no wonder they later withdrew from the market.

    2. Brett Avatar

      CactusJ – Yeah, I’ve been trying to put something together. The airport keeps saying it wants to talk about it, but then nothing happens. I probably just need to give up on that and write it up without them.

      1. CactusJ Avatar
        CactusJ

        They went from glory with BA, Norwegian and even flights to the Azores. WN was hourly and cheap to SoCal. JetBlue to NYC. Now its just WN and its expensive.

      2. Vishal Mehra Avatar

        Strange they keep backing out. They are one of your sponsors.

        1. Brett Avatar

          Vishal – It’s not that they keep backing out, they just can’t be nailed down to a time to actually make it work.

    3. Splog Avatar
      Splog

      My very last NK flight was a $24 SNA-OAK leg in July of 2025, so they were there at OAK at least til near the end.

  6. Paper Boarding Pass Avatar
    Paper Boarding Pass

    JetBlue may still be handicapped via the P&W GTF issue and unable to backfill resulting in a lost opportunity.
    As for LaGuardia, B6 taking over the Marine terminal is not a bad idea. Gives it a long term identity at LGA.
    One issue still hampering B6 is the lack of a lounge at FLL. Either take over the existing lounge in T3 or hand out coupons to elite customers or build one at T4.
    Still feel there is opportunity at LAX of B6. Spirit and B6 were about even. Even a one or two percentage point gain is worth pursuing.

    1. Bill from DC Avatar
      Bill from DC

      I’ll second the notion of JetBlue running an op out of MAT. Emphasis on the locals who hate JFK and fly to their most popular destinations which might up the brand loyalty a tick or two amongst the East siders and North shore Long Islanders who are loathe to trek to JFK.

      “The Van Wyck? Ohhhhhhh, NEVER take the Van Wyck?!?!” George Costanza notwithstanding, the Cross Island Pkwy is the true enemy.

    2. Anthony Avatar
      Anthony

      They previously flew from MAT, and re-located to B to co-locate with AA during the NEA. It probably still makes sense for them to remain in B for United lounge access, and a whole host of other terminal amenities.

      1. Bill from DC Avatar
        Bill from DC

        convenience is the greatest amenity… by far

    3. 1990 Avatar
      1990

      B6 taking over the Marine terminal (A) would be awful for passengers who enjoy the amenities of Terminal B (lounges, like Amex, Chase, C1, etc.) whereas A has nothing….

      1. NedsKid Avatar
        NedsKid

        I call showing up less than an hour before departure to MAT and basically walking from curbside through security and onto the plane as better than getting to the airport early enough to get into a lounge after a 30-45 minute wait for entry.

        1. Anthony Avatar
          Anthony

          That was the calculation when they were running a BOS business schedule. Now that they’re focused on FL leisure flying, their clientele is not showing up as the flight is boarding.

        2. 1990 Avatar
          1990

          Since most flights from LGA are 2-3 hours, sure, fine, maybe no one needs a meal before or during. But, if you are taking LGA-FLL/MCO, maybe you do want lunch or dinner beforehand, especially if you already have a card where it is included. That said… if B6 were to take A, and open another Blue House lounge there… THAT would be epic.

  7. NedsKid Avatar
    NedsKid

    Great write-up, Brett. Your coverage of the closedown of Spirit and the analysis of the resulting has been spot on, in my somewhat-educated opinion.

    Detroit will never be a powerhouse hub for Delta. There is definitely room for a second carrier there to fly some key markets that aren’t necessarily its own hubs to provide competition and still do well.

    Ft Lauderdale is jetBlue’s to lose. You are right they are more concerned with FLL than MCO these days – did you know half of the jetBlue senior leadership team actually lives in south Florida anyway? There are a few scraps here and there to pick up like United already plugged in FLL-LAX nonstop starting at 5 weekly in fall and then up to 2 daily in winter. With the additional jetBlue connecting possibilities, I could see a couple of other UA services (maybe DTW?).

    I’m glad you got excited once you looked into ACY (and MYR). I was on the Breeze inaugural yesterday actually. Airport was very happy. I think they are a great fit for the market. The ACY market is not people going on vacation there – it’s people who live in Southern NJ and travel to second homes/family in Florida… including some who may be closer to PHL but ACY is just easier. Spirit was flying in recent days aircraft that are too large and frequency that didn’t need to be daily but there’s room to flex up seasonally. MYR – good spot already for Breeze and is a base I believe for Allegiant. I could see the need for Allegiant to toss another airplane there perhaps. MYR is a big drive destination (like people from Charlotte tend to go there when they go to the beach – it’s a heck of a lot closer than coastal NC) but the fly-in draw is best served in an Allegiant/Breeze type of network. A few routes work very well daily (like BOS) on a consistent basis. Spirit used to bulk out due to golf bags on its 5am BOS-MYR.

    Newark is a fascinating picture. I don’t see how Allegiant could do much more there without making it a base to avoid collateral operational damage elsewhere in the system – they also run a lot of out and backs or W routes near the limit of crew time on a good day…. for purposes of illustration like a AVL-EWR-BLV-EWR-AVL or something where there isn’t a lot of wiggle room. Breeze probably can and will add some… but maybe this is another that Frontier can grow. They have put a lot of eggs in the PHL basket not that far away.

    At LGA, Spirit leased some slots from AA. I guess the multi-million dollar question is can the NK estate auction the slots or do they have to go back into the pool (I honestly don’t know the rules offhand). When NK left DCA, it sold its slots there at auction. Most airlines offered a million or so per…. WN came in and offered something north of $10 million per and NK couldn’t yell “SOLD” fast enough. Southwest seems to have finally found its groove at LGA. I’d like to see them pick up a few slots .

    1. Anthony Avatar
      Anthony

      “did you know half of the jetBlue senior leadership team actually lives in south Florida anyway?”
      You’re going to need to provide some data or a source to support this.

      1. 1990 Avatar
        1990

        Was gonna say, B6 leadership is very much in Long Island City, Queens, NYC… maybe NedsKid was thinking of the ‘JetBlue University’ at MCO or their subsidiary Paisley’s offices near FLL…

        1. Anthony Avatar
          Anthony

          That’s what I’m wondering. When I worked at LSC, a number of executive leaders lived in Greenwich, CT. I used to see Robin Hayes on the 7 train in the mornings.

          1. 1990 Avatar
            1990

            Nice! (If commuting from Greenwich, I’d imagine they took MetroNorth (2-3 configuration, no assigned seats) to Grand Central, then the 7.)

  8. Tim Dunn Avatar
    Tim Dunn

    Good write up, CF

    the biggest takeaway is that NK, B6 or any other airline will have a much higher job growing in legacy carrier hub/strength markets compared to high volume divided markets.

    B6 already has announced a bunch of new FLL markets including to some of the hub markets for each of the big 4 which B6 did not already serve.
    Those will be the hardest for B6 precisely because 4 different large airlines are all going to protect their position in their own hub markets.

    for example, B6 announced ORD and IAH to FLL and UA just announced LAX-FLL, a market that B6 flies but so does DL. AA also flies ORD-FLL so those two could be drawn into the battle even if UA really wants to limit B6′ growth.

    LGA and EWR are both capacity limited markets in some respect (ORD to a lesser extent) while some markets such as DTW are just much more dominated by one carrier with high fares which means the dominant carrier – DL – can easily add a certain amount of incremental low fare capacity, making it very easy to keep pressure on new entrants to specific markets.

    it is worth noting that DL has been consistently using underutilized slots from AA and B6 at LGA and/or JFK for quite some time so it is not likely that anyone else will be able to significantly grow enough to change the competitive situation in NYC.

    B6 needs to narrow where it is trying to compete which is why they will likely trim EWR and MCO and focus on what is left.

    1. Bob V Avatar
      Bob V

      Wow Delta is the greatest! We would have never known. Regardless, I stopped writing run-on sentences in eighth grade.

      1. Yo Avatar
        Yo

        LOL.

        He is so predictable.

  9. vasukiv Avatar
    vasukiv

    I was curious about the Houston market. I believe Spirit was #2 to United in IAH. Would you expect Frontier to fill in given your comments about their focus on DFW? Or more of that spill going to Southwest at HOU?

    1. Brett Avatar

      vasukiv – Houston wasn’t one of the markets mentioned by Frontier (Orlando, Fort Lauderdale, Detroit, DFW, Las Vegas). That being said, it wouldn’t surprise me if it got a little more capacity. But Frontier actually had already surpassed Spirit in April for the first time, and it has dramatically increased departures from March. So perhaps Frontier’s growth there is already done.

    2. Anthony Avatar
      Anthony

      IAH seems like a good opportunity since UA has favored growth at DEN and ORD over IAH in recent years.

      1. Mark Avatar
        Mark

        I think that will change when the new IAH concourse opens later this year.

  10. DesertGhost Avatar
    DesertGhost

    I remember reading that J.P. Morgan once observed that too much competition destroys all competition. And I recently heard Peter Ingram mention (on Airlines Confidential) that the ideal level of overall airline capacity is a very slight shortage. The market rarely finds the sweet spot in that balance over an extended period.

    1. Stormcrash Avatar
      Stormcrash

      It’s the same problem that Just In Time manufacturing tries to solve. Unsold inventory, be it sitting on a shelf/warehouse or be it an empty seat costs you money. The issue for airlines is that seat maps and aircraft sizes/fleets are relatively fixed items and can’t be quickly matched to demand, or only matched as an approximation, so adjustments are usually in response and after the fact.

      That said the industry has finally gotten pretty good about projecting demand. It went from lots of empty seats historically to 10+ years ago having a near crisis of bumps and constantly hawking vouchers at the gate to give up your seat, to in the last 10 years, pandemic excepted, to getting pretty close to matching demand, full planes but fewer bumps/voluntary denied boardings.

    2. 1990 Avatar
      1990

      J.P. Morgan? As in, the robber baron who consolidated the banking industry in the first Gilded Age (1870s-1900s)? Yeah… I get it, we’re living in a 2nd Gilded Age of sorts these days, but, by no means should we be promoting more monopolies or oligopolies in this or any industry. Healthy competition is good, for business, for consumers, for workers, for the society. “Morganization” literally is the practice of buying up smaller companies, lowering prices to bankrupt rivals, and then acquiring those competitors to solidify market control… *facepalm*

      Also, “you’ve been CEO of how many airlines?” (I only repeat it because you’ve said it so many times to others across the internet…)

      1. DesertGhost Avatar
        DesertGhost

        Yes, J.P. Morgan, the founder of what is now known as J.P. Morgan Chase, and a major financier of railroads, specifically, James J. Hill’s.

        As I look at history, it appears to be highly doubtful that the airline industry has made an overall profit. And airline history, especially post 9/11, was littered with bankruptcy after bankruptcy. History seems to show that Morgan was basically right – on the macro level. The right amount of competition is good or everyone. even if one hasn’t been the CEO of an airline.

        I don’t claim to be an expert on how to run an airline. I don’t claim to know, with 100% certainty, that a particular decision was a mistake. Those to whom I pose my rhetorical question seem to assert, with 100% certainty, that they **know** an executive made a mistake, and state that as a fact, not as an opinion. I don’t have the credentials or experience to make those determinations, and don’t claim that I do. I simply offer observations.

        We’re all entitled to our opinions, but we are not entitled to make up our own facts.

        1. 1990 Avatar
          1990

          And, as such, all you got on here are your opinions, and mine, and others. So, no need to gatekeep; say what you wanna say, and others will reply if they wish. All said, I wouldn’t want to be those JPM ‘eliminated’ from the competition. That era was not healthy competition, at all. We need sensible guardrails to prevent the horrors of history from repeating.

  11. Jason Avatar
    Jason

    A lot of people were betting BJ would pull the trigger and jump into DFW with the available gate space opening thanks to NK demise. But many think WN has shelved those plans and is the currently unannounced next Airline planning to begin service in December at TKI.

    As for LGA WN is interested in NK slots.
    The Port Authority is currently working up an enticing proposal for WN to move its entire operations to the Marine terminal. Allows better flexibility for WN operations since they would be going from 4 permanent and 1 shared gate to 6 permanent gates.

    On several other platforms it’s also been speculated WN is looking at ACY as a potential new destination for 2027. With a just 3 daily flights 2 BWI and 1 BNA.

    It’s being reported that WN is already seeing a good amount of Share shift of NK passengers coming over to WN at both MCO and LAS the last few weeks leading up to NK shutdown.

    1. Atiya Avatar
      Atiya

      Oh wow. Spirit passengers are moving over Southwest? Southwest fares are double Spirit fares. The Spirit crowd must have hit the lottery.

    2. Anthony Avatar
      Anthony

      Which airline is BJ? Any sources on all this WN news, or just regurgitating rumors and wild speculation?

    3. SandyCreek Avatar
      SandyCreek

      ACY – BWI is thought-provoking. On one hand, ACY feels like it is fully within PHL’s catchment area, caught between trains that can get anyone to PHL within ~2 hours and frequent AA landline buses; on the other hand, it’s a market with measurable demand and no connection-driven flight service. Factuality of what you said aside, as a thought exercise, I wonder how much connectivity Southwest can bring by 2x daily flights and how much appeal (and therefore price premium) it can draw to people from beyond the northeast and southern coastal destinations.

      1. MarylandDavid Avatar
        MarylandDavid

        WN flies BWI – RIC (about 120 miles apart), so BWI – ACY could work (150 miles apart). It would be another way to funnel traffic into their “hub.”

        1. Kyle at ACY Avatar
          Kyle at ACY

          Folks living in Richmond need to drive about two hours to reach a major hub airport. ACY is just a one hour drive from PHL. I know I’d rather take a nonstop from PHL over having a connection in BWI.

  12. Ian L Avatar
    Ian L

    The A220 is a nice plan to fix the overcapacity issues on various former Spirit routes. Wouldn’t be surprised to see that show up in a massive way in FLL as a lower risk way for JetBlue to get frequency, and for other dots on the map Breeze has a solid shot with 140 seats rather than 180+. LGA should also be a good fit for the 220, likely from JetBlue.

  13. Mark Avatar
    Mark

    I know there’s concern about everyone trying to backfill all of the NK capacity, but with industry fleet orders remaining the same, wouldn’t the airlines have to draw down somewhere else in order to beef up NK stations?

    Isn’t that what B6 is going to have to do by building up FLL? With F9 cutting aircraft deliveries and having a goal of building up five stations, they would like have to shrink elsewhere too.

    1. Brett Avatar

      Mark – Well, they could always acquire new aircraft (like, some old yellow ones), but I think that’s unlikely. They will have to shift capacity from elsewhere to respond. For JetBlue, I would be looking at Orlando and Newark as the best places to move capacity out. For Frontier, well, they have a whole network to cherry pick from where it wouldn’t be missed.

  14. MarylandDavid Avatar
    MarylandDavid

    Cranky –
    What are the 5 airports Frontier mentioned on their call?

    1. Brett Avatar

      MarylandDavid – Orlando, Las Vegas, Fort Lauderdale, Detroit, DFW

  15. Joe Wolf Avatar
    Joe Wolf

    Allegiant has chosen to serve Detroit via FNT, which is an hour north of DTW, and TOL, which is 45 minutes south of DTW.

    FNT is closer to some of Detroit’s northern suburbs like Auburn Hills than DTW is, and it’s also an easy drive to Lansing, the home of Michigan State University. However, Allegiant hasn’t advertised in the Detroit area lately.

    FNT is a well laid out airport that has lots of parking and excellent ground access to three freeways, I 75, I 69, and US 23.

    I wish Allegiant would do a better job of promoting how nice FNT is, instead of moving to DTW.

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