American Should Prioritize Latin America With Its A321XLR Fleet


With American recently announcing its European-focus for the deployment of its A321XLR, I couldn’t help but wonder if this is the best use of these airplanes. I know Europe is sexy, but I couldn’t stop thinking that for American, Latin America would be a better place to start. And then I started going down the data rabbit hole.

We know that American’s initial plan for the XLR was to put it on the New York/JFK to LAX and San Francisco transcon routes to replace the 102-seat A321T that is dedicated to those routes today. This isn’t the highest and best use of the XLR by any stretch since it doesn’t require the range, but it’s how American decided it could avoid a dedicated fleet and use something with broader utility in the network.

If that’s an immutable requirement — which we could also debate, but I won’t for sake of brevity — then you can almost forgive the decision to put these on European routes from New York. It’s easiest to flow aircraft that way. So, JFK to Edinburgh and now Nice, well, those can come off the transcon flights. (I still think Amsterdam is a different animal that is going to face real challenges, but I get the strategy.)

Even if we accept that assumption, we have to keep in mind that these airplanes are now being run out of Philly to Porto and Vienna next summer. The transcon flights don’t touch Philly on this airplane, so this is a decision to focus on Europe and Philly as opposed to something else.

That “something else” that keeps bugging me is Latin America. Ever since American bought Eastern’s (previously Braniff’s) Latin routes in 1990, that has been American’s strongest international region. If you get a new airplane with new capability, you would think the best option would be to put that airplane to work reinforcing your strengths so nobody else can make inroads. In Latin America, that means having the ability to go deeper into the continent on thinner routes. And it’s in that region that American has seen its presence look wobbly.

Naturally, I asked American about this, and a spokesperson gave me a statement that ended with this:

We ​will continue ​to harness ​the power ​of [the XLR] ​by ​extending it ​to our Latin ​America network ​in ​the ​coming years as ​we ​take ​delivery ​of more aircraft. This will ​primarily be ​centered ​around ​Miami ​(MIA), where ​the ​aircraft can do ​much of what ​it does ​in Europe: ​add ​new routes ​and ​destinations, ​grow frequencies, and ​extend ​the ​season of operations.  There ​is ​one ​added ​benefit ​of ​this deployment, and that ​is ​many ​of ​the markets in Latin ​America ​are counter-cyclical, ​so we ​could ​deploy ​XLRs to Europe ​in ​the ​Summer months, ​and redirect them southbound in ​winter months.

Ok, and yes, I imagine you would want more in winter than in summer, but there is still robust demand year-round, especially for the Latin origins. And competition is coming for American’s already smaller network. To break this down, I pulled the data to Deep Latin America.

I defined “Deep Latin America” as being Peru, Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile, and Argentina. In other words this is every country that is fully below the equator plus Brazil which has no substantive population or possible destination in the sliver just north of the equator. Let’s start with a look at departure share by airline over the years, thanks to Cirium schedule data.

United States to Deep Latin America Departure Share

Data via Cirium

American had historically been in the 40 percent range, even as recently as 2014. But then it started to go downhill. By 2018, it was closer to 30 percent. More recently it’s been at 30 percent in northern winter, but northern summer sits down below 25 percent. And let’s not forget that it lost LATAM as a partner in 2019 when that airline joined up with Delta instead, so the impact is greater.

Between LATAM and Delta, their combined share hasn’t changed all that much. Sure, it has climbed up in the last few years a bit to over 40 percent, but the bigger changes are at the other end of this graph.

Azul and Gol are the ones who have really grown their share. Gol in particular started out using narrowbodies, but it has grown up into widebodies this year. Still, it’s those narrowbodies that American would target with its XLR and make real inroads. But it has chosen not to do that yet.

American’s strategy in Deep Latin America has changed fairly dramatically over the years. Take a look:

American Airlines Deep Latin America Departures and Destinations

Data via Cirium

Even during northern winter peak, American’s current levels of flying are below where they were 10 years ago. The off-season is below where it was 20 years ago. But what we do see is a rallying around only the biggest markets in Deep Latin. American serves only five destinations there year-round now, six if you include Montevideo which is northern winter only.

That alone might not seem like a big deal, but I think this map might change your mind.

Data via Cirium

That’s a lot of red dots. At one point in the last couple decades, American has served all of these destinations with its own metal. Not all of these were major destinations, to be clear — Porto Alegre (POA) was only briefly served in Feb/Mar 2016, for example — but they were served. And many of them were served by the mighty B757 which was so capable, it could handle hot-and-high spots like La Paz and more distant destinations like Asunción.

These are the routes that Gol and Azul are currently flying. From the US, Gol serves Brasilia and Manaus while Azul serves Belo Horizonte along with Recife and Viracopos. Oh, and Boliviana serves Santa Cruz de la Sierra, but that’s nothing new. But competition is about to heat up, I’m guessing.

Let’s not forget here that LATAM has 13 XLRs of its own on order, and SKY has 10. You have to think they will both fly some of those to the US. And at some point, Delta and LATAM will actually pay more attention to their joint venture and do more with it as well.

In other words, American should not be sleeping on this.

This doesn’t even have to start as adding new dots to the map, though I agree with AA that is the best place to start. It could also be about doing a better job connecting existing dots to other hubs in the US.

American Airlines Deep Latin Departures By US Gateway

Data via Cirium

Of course most of these flights go from Miami, but even Dallas/Fort Worth has lost some ground since pre-pandemic. And New York had a brief build-up post-pandemic, but now it has been reduced to its usual operation. Both JFK and LAX could hit Lima with the XLR, for example. They could also do anything in northern South America.

That not only makes it easy to flow aircraft into the transcon network, but it helps American to build its presence further both in the region and in its hubs.

To me, this is the best and highest use of an XLR to start. You undoubtedly want more capacity in Latin America in northern winter, so that does still leave opportunity for some Europe flying during northern summer, but it should start with protecting and growing Latin with everything else filling in the gaps.

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43 responses to “American Should Prioritize Latin America With Its A321XLR Fleet”

  1. Kilroy Avatar
    Kilroy

    Brett, I believe you’ve talked in the past about how the flight lengths from the US to/from South America combined with the fact that those routes don’t cross many time zones makes it tough(er) to offer flights with departure/arrival times preferred by pax while still getting decent utilization per plane, with the result that planes sometimes spend significantly longer on ground in the Southern Cone so that they can return to the US at departure/arrival times that the market prefers.

    Could that also be a factor here, or is that not very relevant in this case?

    /To be fair, I’m not questioning your premise or argument, just fascinated by the interplay between “time in the air” vs time zones for routes and how that impacts marketing/network/operational decisions.

    1. Brett Avatar

      Kilroy – It’s not the flight lengths and time zones, but it’s just passenger preference. No question that when it comes to deep South America, overnight flights are preferred and do better. BUT, that doesn’t have to be the case if you’re in a market where no other nonstop to the US exists. That is a tradeoff that’s likely at least worth trying in some of these markets. It’s also a matter of trying to see if morning south and redeye north is best or the reverse. These are all things I would be pushing on to find the right way to use this airplane. Maybe the answer is that it has to be two overnight flights, but if you’re connecting new markets, then it may be a different outcome.

      1. John G Avatar
        John G

        Brett, the problem is if it’s eight hours flying time each way or close to it, it’s going to be really difficult to set that up with one airplane serving the route where you have departures and arrivals in Miami that work for connections too.

        And you’re not running Miami to Córdoba just to do point to point.

        As few of these as they have right now, I’m not surprised that they are holding them for routes they can do with one airplane per route and not two.

        1. Brett Avatar

          John – It’s really not hard to set this up. Previously, American had the flight to Cordoba leave Miami at 1045p and arrive around 830 or 930 depending upon daylight saving. That’s the same time as most Latin flights, so connectivity is not an issue.

          On the return, it left at 10am or 11am depending upon the season and got back to Miami right around 6pm which fits quite nicely with a lot of the Caribbean inbounds and feeds a robust bank.

          It’s actually quite easy operationally.

  2. corcovado Avatar
    corcovado

    No, it shouldn’t. The XLR is premium heavy, new, and thus somewhat expensive to operate. The Latin America route network is AA’s single most profitable international market outside of LHR, that’s true, but the yields are not that strong consistently, year round.

    AA will use the XLR to some Latin America destinations once it has most of the fleet up and running. I can see them fly MIA-MVD, resume MIA-COR, and fly MIA-ASU, but these routes, apart from MVD perhaps, don’t generate top dollar demand for Flagship Business.

    1. John G Avatar
      John G

      I think it actually is very much part of the story consideration.

      As an example, AA flies MIA-EZE three times a day. All three flights are overnight both ways. That means they need two planes to fly each flight.

      They also have three flights a day to LHR from MIA. Those planes all come back in the afternoon.

      So for three EZE flights, it takes six planes, but for three to LHR it just takes three.

      Bottom line it takes twice the number of available aircraft to serve the southern portion of Latin America than Europe.

      They could probably get by with using one plane to places a bit closer, like Santa Cruz or Asunción. They could also use the plane to go DFW to Lima or Quito.

      I just think with the issues they’ve had getting the planes, Europe is the safer bet for 2027.

      1. Soraya McDonald-Cartier Avatar
        Soraya McDonald-Cartier

        MIA-EZE is 3 x daily during the Northern Hemisphere Fall/Winter season, not year round. The rest of the time, it is 2 x daily.

        AA flies once a day between MIA and LHR, not 3.

        1. John G Avatar
          John G

          I pulled a Friday in October for those.

          Nonetheless, the times hold. American holds their deep Latin American flights and does both ways at night. They bring the Europe plans back in the afternoon.

          So it take twice as many planes to serve places like Montevideo or Cordoba than it does Edinburgh.

  3. SEAN Avatar
    SEAN

    Wonder how many of these routes are already served by foreign flag carriers to the US? And Speaking of the US, is it politically a wise move to send airplanes to countries that the administration claims “they aren’t sending their best?”

    1. haolenate Avatar
      haolenate

      there’s a LOT of folks down there with visas & legal means to enter the US. US is a big trading partner for most of South America, so not sure if politics is really holding much back (except for each country’s individual leadership/politics).

  4. 1990 Avatar
    1990

    Agreed that from North America to secondary markets in both Europe and Latin America are great opportunities for the XLR. I’d even mentioned Cusco before, namely due to the Machu Picchu tourism demand, though commenters were quick to cite domestic Peruvian protectionism and the high-altitude payload penalties out of 11,000 feet on the return. Likewise, perhaps American tourists would like to see Atacama or Iguazu without connecting in Santiago or Sao Paulo. There’s also a Amazon River cruise industry based out of Iquitos. So, if AA wants to use the XLR to squeeze yield out of some of these unique leisure monopolies (even just seasonally) rather than just default transatlantic thin routes, I still think it’s the kind of market worth creatively engineering around. Besides, they can do what United does and brag about those unusual destinations (like Ulaanbaatar and Nuuk!)

    1. Rhys Avatar
      Rhys

      Iguazu and Iqueque to serve off the beaten path tourisms spots are interesting ideas. I’ve been to both and they are really interesting unique environments to check out. There has never been recorded rain in the Atacama desert in that region. Something really exotic would be Easter Island twice a week. Only 4,210 miles from DFW. Another unique opportunity would be Seymour Airport (GPS) in the Galapagos, although environmental concerns might be a high hurdle to clear.

      1. 1990 Avatar
        1990

        Yes! Excellent additions, especially IPC and GPS, though, again Ecuador and Chile would need to be ‘cool’ with that, and typically, the Latin American countries want everything to go through the capitals. Eh. CJC (Atacama) may actually get more rain with the forecast El Nino. We’ll see. Could be an interesting 12 months ahead.

      2. XJT DX Avatar
        XJT DX

        Ecuador currently prohibits any direct flights to/from Galapagos that doesn’t go through the mainland, there’s certain disinsection and screening requirements.

        DFW-IPC sounds very interesting, but very improbable due to ETOPS requirements. The XLR is only certified to 180, and would need 207 or 240 to make it all the way there. That would be the case for anything north of Costa Rica to IPC.

        1. 1990 Avatar
          1990

          I get it; most of these ideas are pipe-dreams. Still, a fun thought exercise.

  5. George Romey Avatar
    George Romey

    Some of those more northern routes were served by a 737 Max 800, the 757 (pre COVID) and MAO may have even been a LAA 319. Wouldn’t this be too much a premium airplane for those destinations? Maybe more suited to a 321NEO.

    1. Brett Avatar

      George – Plenty of discussion about this in the comments, so I’ll just consolidate my thoughts here. There are very different types of markets here, but the XLR can work well in many of them.

      Some of these, like MIA – Cordoba, are premium leisure markets with more US point of origin. The 767 didn’t work pre-pandemic, but there is absolutely a whole lot more premium demand everywhere compared to then anyway. This is a premium-heavy configuration, but it still is a small cabin compared to widebodies. These markets can work well because they are long haul and people are willing to pay more for premium.

      In other markets like Recife or Manaus, you have more Brazil point of origin. These markets may not be vast sources of premium but there is a wealthy, premium market that today is going through the south of the country just to head north. It’s important to note that AAdvantage has long had a big presence in Latin America, so this doesn’t need to be just about US origin traffic.

  6. Rhys Avatar
    Rhys

    Two other factors drive demand and profitability in the region, economic performance of the individual countries, and whether a Visa is required or not. Brazil is a perfect example for economic performance, or lack of. From 2004 to 2010, Brazilian GDP growth often exceed 5% and led to increased demand. This strength in passenger demand was as also coupled with dropping Visa restrictions which was expected to further increase passenger demand to/from Brazil by almost 40%. This led AA to the addition of a lot of secondary Brazilian cities in the early 2010’s based on optimism for their economy. This strong economic performance was then followed by a sharp economic crisis and downturn with GDP contractions of -3.55% in 2015 and -3.28% in 2016. A sharp drop in passenger demand, increasingly expensive 757 operations as they aged, and the return of Visa requirement were a triple whammy on demand and led to everything except GRU and GIG being dropped in Brazil. The same economic cycle played out in Bolivia and Paraguay as well and Argentina has long been an economic basket case. The 737-8 Max with its denser configuration versus the premium 321XLR would seem to be the perfect aircraft to try Bolivia and the northern half of Brazil once more, as well as the new airport opening soon in Cusco, Peru. Europe has greater premium leisure demand than the significantly lower yield VFR (visiting friends and relatives) traffic that drives a lot of South America demand outside of business heavy Sao Paulo. Lots of opportunities in South America as newer more efficient planes come on line, but stronger economic performance in the region would build a better case to focus more on South America over Europe where AA has to contend more with Delta and United already expanding to secondary and sometimes tertiary European cities. There is little concern that DL or UA is going to serve Manaus or Cordoba anytime soon from Atlanta or Houston, so that and poor economic performance are likely why the 321XLR went to Europe first.

    1. Common Sense Avatar
      Common Sense

      Very important point, along with the rest of the commenters’. Just compare Canada’s economy to the USA’s since 2015 and you will understand that certain policies have a death grip on the economy (as well as general freedoms).

  7. Jeremy Avatar
    Jeremy

    Question on that though – other sources have shared figures that fares on a route like JFK-NCE was ~$1,100 while a route like JFK-EDI was ~$900 in recent years. If not the XLR, would you instead serve those routes on widebodies? There I suspect the current AA B787-8 configuration is a problem (only 20J and 28 W vs the XLR’s 20J and 12 W… are those Y fares going to make up for the limited difference in premium seats and operating costs on a widebody vs narrrowbody).

    Are there routes with similar fares / opportunities in LATAM? For example, how do fares look on JFK-LIM if we’re talking about using the XLR on that route. IMO it makes sense as a counter-seasonal route perhaps to offset some seasonal European routes, but from the data that has been shared on other sites those secondary Brazil – Florida and elsewhere fares are really tough. Which then goes against your suggestion, because if those fares on routes to LATAM are in the $400s (as has been claimed elsewhere), that math isn’t favorable

    I completely agree that AA needs to return to many of these markets, but I’m not convinced the XLR is the right gauge – the A321neo or MAX 8 (or later MAX 10 for those in range) may be better. There are a couple of opportunities in which I agree with you where the XLR can be used in LATAM, but I suspect they are fewer and further in between when you look at fares.

    1. Brett Avatar

      Jeremy – This is not a matter of serving one market or another. It’s about prioritization of resources. American will eventually have more XLRs that can do more Europe that doesn’t work on other airplanes today. But right now, it has to decide where to focus its efforts, and Latin matters more. Nice and Edinburgh may do fine, but they don’t really matter strategically. Put the planes where strategic investment matters most, and then do the rest of the fluffy stuff later.

      I still think a premium-heavy airplane is the way to go right now. Lima, maybe that’s not the best example. I was just trying to show that it could be flown. But it’s going deeper into places from Miami that really would pay dividends.

  8. Tim Dunn Avatar
    Tim Dunn

    You are spot on with this recommendation. The XLR is ideal for adding routes in the summer to Europe when fares are high but the economics don’t work when TATL airfares fall during the winter – which, from a fares standpoint, is getting shorter and shorter as the peak “summer” season starts early and ends later.

    There are a lot of those dots that AA previously served w/ the 763ER that could be served w/ the XLR but some are high altitude or with relatively short runways; the XLR may not be ideal for some of those cities.

    Overall, the XLR does provide nice counterseasonal opportunities to Europe.

  9. Mr. Eric Avatar
    Mr. Eric

    When I looked at AA’s South American map a couple few years ago, I was shocked at how many destinations were dropped and I wondered why. Then I remembered the 757 (and other aircraft) retirements.

    AA self-inflicted so many wounds with early aircraft retirements not only in South American, but also Trans-Atlantic. Now AA is in the unenviable position of playing catchup. Fortunately for them, South America is less of a hill to overcome.

    With the XLR so new to their fleet, it’s now a matter of where to deploy them first as they get more deliveries. While there is a void in South America, I would think they would rather deploy them in the trans-Atlantic market first where they’ve lost considerable share.

    Routes to those secondary/tertiary South American markets are an AA specialty from MIA that UA/DL have little desire to offer from their respective IAH/ATL hubs. This, in my opinion, is what gives AA some more time to launch XLR routes to deep South America once they get more deliveries – perhaps configured in less premium layout.

    1. Rhys Avatar
      Rhys

      AA dropped many of the secondary Brazil route many years before the 757 retirement. A poorly performing Brazilian economy in the mid-2010s led to a drop in passenger demand. Even a smaller A319 from Miami to Manaus wasn’t sustainable.

  10. Rhys Avatar
    Rhys

    While counter-cyclical 321XLR service was mentioned to Europe in the summer and then to South America in the winter (their summer,) an opposite way to look at this would be to send widebodies to South America for the winter (peak Southern Summer,) and then fly the 321XLR during the low demand summer (Southern Winter.). This might extend the season or maybe enable year-round service to somewhere like Montevideo which at the time being only gets nonstop 787-8 service to Miami from December until March.

  11. abcdefg Avatar
    abcdefg

    What’s the impact of Copa’s growth on these types of markets? And Avianca’s for that matter, but thinking of CM more.
    Their deep South America markets are pretty close to what is suggested here by Cranky and they serve most of the largest markets in the US and Canada.

    A longer overnight would be welcomed on some of these itineraries but CM is a quite an efficient way to reach these markets.

    1. Brett Avatar

      abcdefg – Copa has made it a lot easier to get to many of these markets from the north, but it has never been very premium. Yes it has a few flat beds on its newest 737s which helps a lot with longer haul, but it is mostly a coach and domestic first class kind of airline today. Still, it has an incredible business, runs huge margins, and is serving an important purpose for all those people coming from the 17 cities served in the US. But just because Copa exists doesn’t mean American should run away. It can provide something from the US nonstop which will make a lot of people more comfortable. And it can do it with a better product.

    2. haolenate Avatar
      haolenate

      I commute between Panama & the US and it blows my mind how strong Copa has become in many markets. TPA went from 4x a week to now 12x a week; MCO & MIA regularly have 8 to 9 flights *A DAY*, and even unusual markets like AUS & RDU go out constantly full. I’d be curious to see AA’s traffic numbers compared to CM in MIA/MCO and see if CM’s been getting a larger chunk of AA’s former passengers.

  12. s712 Avatar
    s712

    I frequently agree with Cranky’s analysis, but I have to vehemently disagree here. There are so many problems with placing high J aircraft on secondary South America:

    1) Economies in South America are disproportionately centered on the primary city, even more so than Europe. That means all the wealth is in cities like Buenos Aires or Sao Paulo, whereas a city like Cordoba is just a college town. In Brazil, there is hardly any upper middle class or upper class in cities like Belo, Porto Alegre, Recife, etc. Even Rio has substantially less wealth than Sao Paulo.

    2) Americans, particularly wealthy Americans that fill J cabins, don’t want to spend their big 1-2 week getaway from their jobs during the summer in South America in any appreciable quantity to necessitate high J aircraft in seconday cities. It’s poor, it has high crime, it’s contra-seasonal, there usually isn’t an ancestry link. Also, South America doesn’t have the breadth of tourism infrastructure that Europe has had for ages.

    The Americans that you do see in South America are either VFR, “adventurerers”, or culture junkies. A lot of Lonely Planet guidebooks there.

    3) There is a reason that AA dropped these secondary Latam markets…they were trash and lost tons of money. Anyone with diio access (including Brett) can use the “airline performance” tool to see how bad rasm and yields were on their flights. It wasn’t just bad…it was really bad. Furthermore, I’m sure that these routes had high cost bases due to the challenges of operating in that region.

    This isn’t to say that AA can’t somehow break into these markets and let them grow over time. I’ve thought that it could possibly be smart to try to operate routes like VVI or BSB less-than daily with a MAX-8, with a crew legal overnight (probably goes south at noon, north the next day at 8am) to connect to their North America RONs from MIA. Or maybe operate CUZ as a non-stop southbound, but with a tech stop in LIM northbound (that doesnt let pax off the flight). Give the flight the best timings, the best days-of-week, and the best aircraft (no J seats, but domestic-style F) to maximize the chance of success.

    It is also possible that these markets will grow over time to warrant such flights. The nice thing about airplanes, though, is that they can be moved when the market shifts in that direction.

    Again, I appreciate the long-time analysis from Cranky, but I disagree with this one. I think what Brett is suggesting makes sense conceptually, but when you put numbers to it, it falls apart. They can’t all be winners.

    1. Brett Avatar

      s712 – The airline performance report only gets you what you want if you have access to international DB1B/C, so most people can’t see it. It’s also only for US airlines and their joint venture partners. Anyway, I do have access to that, but I’m not going to talk about those numbers publicly since that’s not allowed. But what I will say is that the markets have changed significantly since American last flew most of these. The XLR is far, far more efficient than the 757 with a much better cost basis. And there is a real opportunity here in a region that is American’s to lose.

      1. s712 Avatar
        s712

        Thanks for the reply. I work in airport consultancy, so I’ve learned that a lot of great ideas die once some revenue and cost projections are added to the analysis, and the actual results always underperform the projections due to an unforeseen factor. While the XLR has better costs than the 757, the small relative size and high instability of the economies in South America are just too much of a negative to make a plane with a ton of spacious J-class seats economical. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree, until maybe someone tries it and we get results!

  13. Phllax Avatar
    Phllax

    As long as the local POS remains biased toward the local carrier, who still has ticket offices and accepts cash, all of the US carriers will have issues with secondary markets. There may be some exceptions like Cuzco and Mendoza.

  14. DesertGhost Avatar
    DesertGhost

    Your suggestion makes a lot of sense on many levels. You and other commentors have given virtually of the reasons why I agree with your thesis, so I won’t bore everyone by repeating those thoughts. I hope you all had a great Labor Day weekend.

  15. Will Avatar
    Will

    Would the A321XLR really be able to serve Cusco successfully? 11K feet is brutal, and I’m not convinced that it’s anything but a 757 or widebody airport for US service.

    Keep in mind though that AA has been phoning it in for years in much of South America. It doesn’t even operate lie flats on MIA-LIM anymore!

    1. Kilroy Avatar
      Kilroy

      CUZ has an 11k feet runway. Not sure if that would be enough for the XLR, but it would certainly help with the hot and high environment.

      For context, LPB has a ~13k feet runway, and is at ~13k feet elevation.

      I haven’t flown out of CUZ, but I have flown out of LPB (did a LPB-VVI-EZE, and it was a great experience, especially with the airport being on a plateau above the city.

      1. Will Avatar
        Will

        An A321XLR can almost certainly make it from CUZ-MIA, but could it operate with a full passenger load, with baggage and cargo? This strikes me as a route that would have above average passenger baggage, and would need air cargo for consistent profitability.

        I have my doubts that this aircraft could handle it all without penalty.

        1. Kilroy Avatar
          Kilroy

          It’s a good question and one that I can’t answer confidently as a non-pilot.

          However, based on a quick glance at a diagram on the “Aircraft Characteristics” sheet in the “Airport and Maintenance Planning” section of Airbus’ web site (search for that for more info), I think you’re right.

          If I’m reading the diagrams right (and I may not be, or may be reading the wrong diagram, and the diagrams don’t go beyond 8k feet pressure altitude), it does look like the plane would have a SIGNIFICANT reduction (50k-60k lbs?) in its max allowable takeoff weight compared to the usual max takeoff weight if it were to try to take off from a 11k foot runway at 11k feet above sea level.

          Again, I may be way off as a layperson, but it was a fun exercise to do a quick search and see the diagrams.

          1. Will Avatar
            Will

            I think it’s a 787-8 or bust situation, and AA certainly doesn’t have the widebodies for tertiary markets like this.

            They clearly care enough about this market to have an interline agreement with JetSmart, but I wouldn’t be caught dead trying to fly an AA itinerary with a JetSmart segment (too many JetSmart CS horror stories).

  16. SandyCreek Avatar
    SandyCreek

    While south America suffers from a lot of the timing problems, it is still possible to turn planes around on a same-day basis. Consider JFK-LIM. From a fr24 skim LATAM runs 10x weekly and the daily flight (LA2468/9) is like this:
    – LA 2468 LIM 0005 – 0910 JFK
    – LA 2469 JFK 2359 – 0655+1 LIM

    Lightly extending the flight time by 30 minutes on both directions to account for slower airspeed of A321 gives us a hypothetical schedule of something like:
    – AA xxx JFK 1300 – 2030 LIM
    – AA xxx LIM 2359 – 0930 JFK

    It certainly isn’t ideal, but it can still attract some potential patronage.

    While DFW is definitely not getting domestic or Europe (DFW-DUB is 120nm longer than PHL-VIE) on the XLR, it can still be stationed there to supplement Hawaii and south American service – including LIM (which AA doesn’t run, at least in northern summers). Modeling off UA’s IAH-LIM service:
    – UA 854 IAH 1625 – 2300 LIM
    – UA 855 LIM 0055 – 0740 IAH

    We can sketch a schedule along the page of:
    – AA xxx DFW 1500 – 2230 LIM
    – AA xxx LIM 2359 – 0700 DFW

    Similar approaches can be taken for secondary Brazil destinations out of MIA, e.g. G37748 on GOL is scheduled for BSB 1000 – 1650 MIA.

    I am not an expert on how that impacts premium cabin sales, but day turns are definitely still possible for the less-than-deepest destinations with a bigger east-west skew, and that’ll go a long way to eliminating the red dots in AA’s deep south America map.

    1. Bill from DCA Avatar
      Bill from DCA

      re JFK-LIM, the XLR is slower than which plane in your comparison?

  17. Gino Rodriguez Arnaiz Avatar
    Gino Rodriguez Arnaiz

    Latam has different animals, region wise.
    Deep South its above 6 hours flying.
    Brazil/Uruguay/Paraguay/Argentina and Chile.
    Peru and Bolivia fall into the Andean region with Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela and Panama.
    Lately, northern Brazil seasonal destinations have become an important sub region that defers from Deep South in many aspects.
    Its important to take into consideration the point of sale weight and class of service demand since they are not the same between does two regions. Some USA corporations only allow business class travel to their employees on flights with flight time above 6 hours.

  18. Simon Avatar
    Simon

    They should be expanding back in Deep South America, but with their older high density configured 787-8s, and also the 737-MAX8 in some closer markets. Definitely not with premium A321XLRs.

  19. Jason Avatar
    Jason

    This right here is Why Scott Kirby will eventually Pull the trigger on buying JetBlue.
    FLL will give United a turn key opportunity to transform it into their South American hub destination to rival and steal lucrative market share opportunities from American at MIA.
    American is a sleep at the wheel and it shows.
    Instead of being foward focused on their strongholds they’re throwing money away in Chicago on a goose that’s already sailed.

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