Frontier in New York and Los Angeles: A Tale of Two (Expensive) Cities


Frontier decided to end its efforts to make a go of things at New York’s JFK airport last week with the termination of all but one, single daily flight from the airport. This makes sense, but the opposite is happening across the country in Los Angeles where Frontier continues to build. These are both expensive, coastal airports. So why is one being treated better than the other? I don’t have an answer.

Through the pandemic, Frontier had been pushing to abandon high-cost airports, but that changed in 2024 when it reversed course and went back into LAX while also starting its first JFK service. The schedule data from Cirium tells the tale:

Frontier Departures by Airport Over Time: JFK vs LAX

Data via Cirium

Up until, well, up until right about now, the two airports were growing together, but they have quickly diverged. Why? I think it’s safe to say that a change in CEO from Barry Biffle to Jimmy Dempsey had something to do with that. The timing is far too suspicious for it not to be a factor. We now see two airports on very different trajectories in the Frontier network, but they have similar characteristics.

At JFK, Frontier had started slow with a couple daily flights to San Juan, but it ramped up to the point where it served 10 destinations this winter. Other than San Juan, we had beach destinations in Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, all of which are Frontier bases. There was leisure flying to another base in Las Vegas along with connectivity to Frontier bases in Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, and Denver. And then there was the nonstop from JFK to LAX, the only non-base flight at the airport.

After mid-April, JFK will plunge down to only having a single daily flight from Atlanta arriving mid-day and then turning around to head back south. This, I assume, it much more about Frontier’s new-favorite and largest operation in Atlanta than it is about New York.

LAX, meanwhile, is set up differently. It has service to around 15 airports that I break down this way:

  • Frontier base flying: Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver, Orlando, Philly (seasonal)
  • Short-haul, West Coast: Las Vegas (base), Phoenix (base), Portland (OR), Sacramento, Salt Lake City, San Francisco, San Jose, Seattle
  • Other big cities: Houston/IAH and New York/JFK (just ended)

Houston is a strange outlier, but what’s notable here is that a ton of the West Coast flying is between two non-bases, so it requires routing airplanes from elsewhere just to fund these flights. You’d think that would make this harder to justify than JFK which was almost all flying to bases.

Is this a precursor to an LAX base? I can’t imagine that, considering the high costs of complying with regulation and taxation in California. That doesn’t fit the Frontier model, so instead it will flow airplanes from its bases through LAX to run other routes which seems like a pretty heavy lift.

That thing is, I’m not sure that any of this really fits the Frontier model. New CEO Jimmy Dempsey has indicated he needs to drive down costs, so flying to airports with costs per enplanement well north of $30 like LAX and JFK seems like a mistake.

The end of JFK flying makes all too much sense. Not only is there ample competition on these routes from other airlines, but there are plenty of flights from LaGuardia which is closer in to the city anyway. So this is about serving the people who find JFK more convenient than either LaGuardia or Islip and need a cheaper fare. It’s not hard to see how this doesn’t work very well.

In LA, it is a different story in that sense. LAX is the primary and closest airport for a wide swath of the region, and a big part of that region has the money to travel. It’s Burbank to the northeast or Long Beach to the southeast that bracket the airport, but they aren’t ideal for those on the wealthy westside, including Santa Monica. Still, that doesn’t seem like justification enough.

Perhaps this is all about the recent decision by CEO Jimmy Dempsey to have the airline fly its airplanes more to keep costs down. That means boosting flying on off-peak Tuesday/Wednesday/Saturday. So Frontier needs markets that it hopes it can actually fill on those weaker days. LAX certainly has demand, so perhaps that what is making it appealing? I’m really stretching here.

I’m guessing the real appeal here is that Southwest is increasingly expensive, and Frontier thinks that it can make a living doing infrequent service between big West Coast cities with cheap fares. With the Southwest fare canopy being as high as it is, competition is much weaker on the West Coast than on the other side of the country. So perhaps there’s a chance that Frontier can make money even with that enormous airport cost? Probably not. Frontier’s historical fares are still pretty low there.

To add a cherry on top, Frontier passengers have a terrible LAX experience since they have to check in at Terminal 1.5 and then take a bus to the midfield concourse gates. That’s most annoying when your flight is only an hour on these short-haul runs.

So why is Frontier still trying to make a go of things at LAX? I’m running out of ideas.

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Brett Avatar

17 responses to “Frontier in New York and Los Angeles: A Tale of Two (Expensive) Cities”

  1. 1990 Avatar
    1990

    LCCs are hardly at the 3 main NYC area airports anymore. Southwest is LGA-only. Spirit is reduced at LGA and EWR. For the rest you’d need to consider tertiary airports like ISP, HPN, SWF, where Allegiant and Breeze have a presence, but it’s inconvenient from the city. Feels like LON with its 6+ area airports, some of which are way out there.

  2. RPCV Avatar
    RPCV

    I’m sure United is keeping an eye on Frontier for it’s landing slots at JFK.

    1. Tony Avatar
      Tony

      Frontier leased JFK slots from American Airlines.

  3. Emil D Avatar
    Emil D

    CF,
    Could it be:
    1. A321neo fleet economics. Their high-density A321neos have dramatically lower per-seat costs, mid-6¢ CASM-ex fuel, which gives them a 40%+ cost advantage over legacy carriers even at expensive airports.
    2. LAX as a destination, not just an origin. JFK I don’t think is a destination for their passengers.
    3. With Spirit in bankruptcy and dissolving, Frontier’s real goal is to kill Spirit, or squeeze it enough to force a merger by adding routes that sit directly on top of Spirit’s network.
    4. Frontier faces financial pressures and is set to return 24 leased A320neos and defer 69 aircraft deliveries.
    5. The JFK Terminal 6 complication. Didn’t Frontier publicly commit to operating out of JFK’s new Terminal 6 starting in 2026? Frontier’s JFK presence now appears marginal, raising legitimate questions about whether the airline still needs space in JFK’s newest terminal.

  4. See_Bee Avatar
    See_Bee

    It makes sense to get out of NYC… beyond the high pax costs, IROP expenses can pile up from weather and the congested airspace. For LAX, the legacies continue to upgauge and WN deploys their fare segmentation, it feels like a losing fight on both fronts

    Is the goal to capture LAX-area PoO or bring F9 customers in other cities to the LA basin? If the former, my head went ONT to capture a significant middle-class population that wants to go on vacation. Try to capture gate space before WN gets too big there

    1. Eric R Avatar
      Eric R

      The issue with ONT is that it would pretty much limit you to Inland Empire origin passengers only. Visiting leisure traffic, who I would venture to guess makes up a good chunk of the demand, won’t opt for ONT….it is just too far away. I would estimate 33% to 50% of your demand is at risk with any move to ONT.

      1. JT8D Avatar
        JT8D

        I think if Frontier ran a good and useful operation at ONT, it could be successful. That would have to be some kind of Southwest-esque version of a ULCC, by which I mean high reliability and decent frequency. In other words, something people could count on.

        The hassle and price of LAX has got to pretty epic levels. Also, in theory, the catchment of ONT is potentially a bit larger than you might think, because for people driving from west to east in the morning, you get the benefit of anti-commuting. You’re going against traffic, and that’s meaningful.

        But ONT needs useful schedules to realize its potential. The same could be said about Frontier. Frontier is nothing anyone can rely upon, so basically its still selling price and nothing more. That’s not the key to long-term success, but Indigo has never understood that.

        I’ve been in a room with Indigo folks joking about how crappy their carriers are. So long as they think it’s funny, they’ll continue to suffer, along with their passengers. Indigo deserves it, the passengers less so.

        1. Eric R Avatar
          Eric R

          Besides Allegiant with their unique business model, I cannot think of one airline that made a tertiary airport like ONT a successful beyond being a typical out station.

          Sure, you can stand one up, but it crumbles down quickly. Frontier has experienced this first hand. There is just not enough meat on the bone even for an airline like Frontier.

          1. JT8D Avatar
            JT8D

            Ryanair at Stansted. Yes, it’s a different geography, but the US is arguably in a similar situation to Europe 30 years ago, with many of our main airports now at saturation levels.

            It’s one thing to try to make an ISP work when there’s a ton of latent capacity at JFK. That was the situation 25 years ago when Southwest made a major push at ISP. JetBlue started at JFK, drove prices down, ISP never had a chance. It’s my understanding that Southwest acknowledged they didn’t understand how much latent capacity there was at JFK.

            OK, but now JFK is saturated. So where does the demand go?

            Also, ONT has a substantial intrinsic catchment. A lot of people live around there, they’re not as rich as people who live by the coast, but there’s still a ton of them and they have disposable income and they travel. But it’s about useful and reliable transportation. And a shitty carrier that shows up seldom and when it does, is unreliable – that’s no substitute. All Frontier offers is price.

            By contrast, Stansted is, at least by UK standards, a bit out in the sticks. East Anglia (the part of the UK beyond Stansted) is pretty thinly populated. You’ve got Cambridge, and that’s not nothing, but it’s not thickly populated either. Historically the area was marshes – it was drained in the last few hundred years, but it’s low lying and still thinly populated.

      2. See_Bee Avatar
        See_Bee

        That’s my point though. The Inland Empire (according to Google) is ~4.7M people. With that many people, you don’t have to rely on outstation pax. There should be enough people in the ONT catchment that want to go on vacation or visit relatives elsewhere that would find F9 useful

  5. JT8D Avatar
    JT8D

    Bill Franke and Indigo have made more money from airlines than God, and good for them.

    But these years since they got the Frontier IPO away (which, in retrospect, seems like one of the last good things to happen to Indigo in the US – the stock has gone straight down since then), have not been kind to Indigo or its reputation.

    That revenue model never made a lick of sense. Spirit and Frontier were lucky to be one of the few sources of cheap fares in the pre Covid era when the majors had more demand than they knew what to do with. Also, they’d made solemn (if utterly bogus) promises to the gubmint that Spirit and Frontier represented viable competition, so they had to leave them alone for a while. But the minute United et al wanted to kill them, they could. And have.

    It’s astonishing that the people running Spirit and Frontier, who nominally are supposed to know what they’re doing, have stuck with it. Their strategy no longer works.

    It’s like a monkey trained to press a button for a peanut. The peanuts no longer come, but the monkey keeps pressing the button.

    I had some hope that maybe the new Dempsey-era Frontier would show signs of revenue model life, but they’ve labored mightily and brought forth a mouse.

  6. Jim David Avatar
    Jim David

    At LAX, Southwest is no longer really an LCC, Spirit will probably gone soon, leaving Frontier as the only LCC option. While inconvenient, terminal 1.5 and the midfield gates have to lower costs, $30 average includes the legacy carriers operating in the expensive satellite terminals. West coast market is a lot different than the East, which is why Jetblue has never succeeded out here.

  7. NedsKid Avatar
    NedsKid

    At JFK by FAA numbers, in 2025 Frontier held 13 slots on average per day but used 18. So some of them came from elsewhere and maybe are wanted back. Perhaps they are leasing out the rest for good money (this won’t become reportable and then requires some reading between the lines by hour of holder versus operator).

    I don’t think this would cause such a huge drop, but Frontier’s costs at JFK are likely increasing. Frontier has been in the soon-to-be-bulldozed Terminal 7. They had announced movement to the new T6.

    At JFK, the airport only sets and collects from airlines the landing fees, AirTrain surcharges, police tour charges, and off-terminal aircraft parking and similar. Actual terminal rental/use charges are between the air carriers and the private entities that own/operate each terminal at JFK (Vantage Group I think it is). So I’m sure the cost recoup for T6 in whatever rental charges Frontier would have to pay vs T7 will be a steep increase. Furthermore, in the various new terminals as run by private entities, they are limiting ground handling. I don’t know the arrangements for T6, but in T1, that owner/operator decided only two ground handlers will have the ability to operate there and they will pool electric GSE for common use.

    All that together may not mean that huge a price difference to LAX…. JFK actual operating costs to carriers are not transparent as it’s between a private entity (contracted with PANYNJ itself) and the air carriers.

  8. southbay filer Avatar
    southbay filer

    You have a typo in the last paragraph “tak” a walk. That “e” is missing.

    Even though isn’t T1.5 to Frontier’s gate more of a hike or trek than a simple walk?

  9. Bgriff Avatar
    Bgriff

    Does Frontier get a break on airport costs thanks to that really unappealing real estate footprint? There has to be some reason they agreed to that setup…

  10. Paul Avatar
    Paul

    What does Frontier need JFK anyway? They do just fine out of LaGuardia and Newark. And FYI, Newark is the preferred airport for those living on the west side of Manhattan. You can get there easily by bus in 20 to 25 minutes from Port Authority and other drop off pickup locations or by train from Penn Station on frequently scheduled commuter links. Plus Newark captures the huge Northern New Jersey market that has money for leisure travel, but understandably would never come into New York City to fly.

  11. Lucon Avatar
    Lucon

    Does Frontier own their JFK slots? Could leasing their slots out be more profitable or at least better cash flow than using their slots?

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