Ask Cranky: Is Southwest Overbooking Again?


I haven’t done an entry in this series for a long time, and honestly when I got this email from a reader, I didn’t think I’d be doing it here either. But then, it turns out, the answer is far more interesting than I expected.

Let’s start with the question from William…

I haven’t seen this before. Has Southwest quietly changed its overbooking policy? I’m always game for a voluntary bump, but there’s no way I’ll do this for $30. Could they give that amount to me in rolled up pennies as an alternative, maybe? I guess Southwest is looking for people who wanted to change, but the fares were too high.

He included a screenshot of an email where indeed he was offered $30 if he wanted to change his flight. I’ve seen other airlines do this, but I, like William, assumed Southwest wouldn’t do this since it doesn’t overbook. My guess at the time was that he was just downgauged from a B737-800/-8 to a B737-700, so they had to offload some passengers. But then I got the same email.

To be fair, this wasn’t the exact same email. Mine was only $20 instead of $30. But I was always scheduled on a B737-700, so this couldn’t have been a downgauge. Is Southwest overbooking again? No. No it’s not.

The dots finally connected when this press release from Volantio came out on October 15. Apparently, Southwest will send emails to customers on high-demand flights to try to get them to move on to a different option. This is what Volantio apparently calls “Post-Booking Revenue Management.” Maybe that’s an industry term and I’m just not aware of it, but it does make sense.

As I see it, the idea is that within a week of travel, Southwest may have regrets. If it sold cheap seats and demand remains strong, it could have sold those seats for more money. So, it will open up flexibility for travelers. Not only will it allow them to change for free, but they’ll throw a small enticement in. In my case, it was $20 in future credit. In William’s case, it was $30.

I can’t imagine any traveler being swayed by the small amount of credit. This is more about finding the traveler who maybe wanted to switch anyway. In that case, it should be a no-brainer… if it was implemented better. As you see in that email, if you switch, you will lose any upgraded/EarlyBird boarding that you purchased. You don’t even get your money back. You just lose.

This is a temporary issue, of course, since assigned seating comes in January. But I am rather curious to see how they decide to handle it when people have paid for Extra Legroom seating when the time comes.

For me, this was a non-starter anyway. I didn’t have flexibility on time. But Southwest did give me three options in case I did. The first two were ridiculous since they were two full days earlier, but the third was just a morning flight that same day. I can see that being appealing to some people.

In this case, I paid somewhere around $170 one way. Right now, the cheapest ticket on that flight is selling for $240. If I can move to a different flight, even if you count the $20 credit as cash, they still stand to make an extra $50 if they can resell it.

This requires the system to be reasonably good at predicting if a seat can be resold or not, but this is also not new technology. There is a track record. I was offered the same thing by Alaska earlier this year. I just assumed it was related to overbooking, but there’s no reason it has to be.

This feels like a nice little opportunity to juice revenue just a bit by offering something that should only be viewed as a benefit to the customer. I say it “should” be viewed that way, because the current implementation that takes away your priority boarding has an absolute downside. Hopefully that will change in January. If the math works right, the upside is there for the airline.

So, that’s the answer, William. Thanks for leading me to learn more about exactly what was going on here.

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Brett Avatar

26 responses to “Ask Cranky: Is Southwest Overbooking Again?”

  1. Lost Luggage Avatar
    Lost Luggage

    I came across this topic last week and will give the heads up to my sister and niece who are big time Southwest fliers.
    Make them aware about the measly cash reward and corresponding forfeit of seat or boarding upgrades fees.
    What else does Southwest have in its back pocket?

  2. Wany Avatar
    Wany

    Seen many posts on Reddit with similar offer and crazy options that are +/- several days. It would be interesting to see how many actually took this offer.
    I had a recent experience with Icelandair doing something similar. I was given 24 h to accept a first come first serve offer of $100 to move my flights 2 days ealier. While $100 sounds a bit better than $20, it still seems ridiculous low given the cost of a typical iceland trip.

  3. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    Alaska does this pretty regularly as well. Some of their rewards can be a bit more enticing (I’ve seen as high as $75 but also as low as $25).

  4. Emil Avatar
    Emil

    $20 for the Kettles that fly on Southwest is a fortune

    1. Dan Avatar
      Dan

      Agreed. Never could understand how anyone who flies more than once a year could put up with an airline with no reserved seating and no F cabin. SW is apparently bringing its hillbilly ethos to its new iteration as an “adult” airline once it starts doing reserved seating.

      1. Brad Avatar
        Brad

        I’m with you, I have always avoided WN with a passion.

        Back when WN was cheap ($29 flights), that was an argument for WN, the free bags were a positive, and the fact that WN service out of DEN was plentiful also helped. Back in the day, the lack of change fees, flexibility to move flights around and to book and cancel and rebook when prices dropped also were a point in favor of doing this, especially if you fly WN often enough to eat up the credits you’ve created fast enough.

        But now, I don’t know what the argument for taking WN is and I see some subtle signs of a shift to UA (at least in DEN) for some of the frequent WN fliers when the price/schedule/destination works out better than what WN offers.

        1. David M Avatar

          The big argument for taking WN is the point to point network. If you live in a bigger city that’s not a hub for one of the other airlines, chances are your nonstop flights on other airlines are just to hubs, meaning you have to connect to get where you’re going. But Southwest offers a lot of point to point flights, so there’s a better chance you can get a nonstop to where you’re going with them.

      2. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        Yeah, WN isn’t the cheap-and-cheerful alternative it used to be, but introducing assigned seats takes them pretty much to being the same as the majors and Alaska. If you fly more than once a year but are still well short of traveling enough, especially in these days of revenue-based programs, the absence of first class doesn’t make a material difference because you’re never going to get status that would get you F upgrades anyway, and that’s true for many people who aren’t “hillbillies”.

        WN introducing assigned seating gets rid of the last big qualm a lot of people had about them (including me, if two carriers have the same or similar fares and schedules I’ll book the other carrier just to avoid Bingo Boarding.)

        1. Brad Avatar
          Brad

          As a bag checker since the mid 1980s when I started traveling regularly (12-25 trips a year), the assigned seating announcement with the bonus of extra legroom seating on WN made me think for a brief moment that they would become an acceptable option if the stars properly aligned, but then I remembered that they planned start charging for bags before they have the seating improvements in place. Took WN off the “thinking of flying if needed list” and back to the avoid at all costs list.

          Free bags and E+ seating on UA trumps the WN way everyday.

      3. Darin Avatar
        Darin

        When I flew LAX-PHX vv regularly, WN would often win out due to frequency/schedule (unless I needed that 6am AA departure. Oof). I never checked bags and 9/10 times able to get a window. If it was a crap seat the flight was short enough that I could manage. WN was also a player when the only nonstop in the market ex., LAX-OAK, MKE-LAX. When my family came along I appreciated family boarding after A group no matter what we were assigned, but still preferred to travel on an airline that offered an economy plus style product.

        Seating roulette was always a turn off though, glad that is gone. Likewise I’m here for the extra legroom. Problem is I don’t want to actually pay for those things since I get them for free on AA and UA.

  5. Tonei Glavinic Avatar
    Tonei Glavinic

    I mean it’s right there in the email what they plan to do – “seat upgrade purchases will be forfeited”. Not sure if it’s an IT limitation or they’re just dead set on not letting anyone get a refund for early bird/upgraded boarding/seat fees outside of irops

    1. Jason H Avatar
      Jason H

      It’s probably that IT can’t do it automatically, and they can’t be bothered to do it manually so they just make it policy not to.

      I doubt that the majority of passengers buy those upgrades though, especially ones who would be tempted to switch flights for just $20.

  6. NedsKid Avatar
    NedsKid

    I am with you Brett that if it were same day and worked at least neutrally for me, why not. Especially with the coming of seat assignments where if I can get a comparable seat… whereas today I think there is sometimes a bit of a gamble with the boarding number algorithm versus those who originally booked on the flight (Early Bird does, or at least used to, take booking date into account and have heard reports of people moving flights and getting booking date reset for this purpose – not that it really moves the needle much).

    I have had an offer of $30 and a $50 before from WN in years past… though that was I’m sure motivated by something different. Both times were the same week in December booked out of SNA – they were already restricting ticket sales at that point due to the passenger cap approaching. But $50 to move my SNA-OAK to fly out of BUR and you aren’t gonna transport me over to BUR? Maybe if they offered LGB.. But I don’t see many people in the LA area willing to swap airports like that for so little money unless it’s someone who is there on business or vacation and either won’t be out of pocket for ground transport, or at the moment of the offer priced it out on the Uber app and saw oh, that’s not bad (then when it’s time to go it’s 4x the price and takes 3x as long).

    I’m shocked airlines haven’t done this before… and always, when I was on the operations side, thought that the best thing to do was fill seats before they expired at departure time. It only solves a yet-to-be-known issue later in the day. I’ve had AA proactively (against my will) rebook me off an estimated missed connection, then I make the original connections to be told that because I didn’t meet the deadline to add myself to standby back on my original flight in the app they can’t help me, push with empty seats, then have the rebooked last flight of the night take volunteers… They’ve rectified some of that purposeful unhelpfulness recently.

  7. Kilroy Avatar
    Kilroy

    On a somewhat related topic, I’ve been in situations where I’ve gotten to the gate early enough that an earlier flight to the same destination (with plenty of empty seats) hasn’t yet boarded, only to be told by the gate agents that if I wanted to get on that earlier flight I’d have to pay the fare difference + change fee.

    I’ve always wondered if that is really the best ting for airlines to do, even for basic economy fares, at least for flight changes very close to departure time (say, within 3 hours) or when the passenger is already airside in the terminal. If a pax has a seat on the 830a flight which is 100% fully booked, but the 730a flight has plenty of empty seats, I would think it would only help revenue overall if the pax were allowed to shift to the earlier flight free of charge.

    I understand that pax could try to game the system (book a later, cheaper flight, and then try to get onto an earlier, more expensive flight at their own risk), and that change fees are moneymakers. However, the cost to the airline to make the change is near zero (especially if the pax didn’t check a bag), and freeing up a seat on the fully booked flight has the potential to generate significant revenue. Also, from an operations side, I’d presume that the more empty seats can be shifted to flights later in the day, the better, in case of IRROPS etc.

    1. NedsKid Avatar
      NedsKid

      I know that Southwest did the whole pay fare difference to go earlier thing because that was a system limitation with its old res system. They basically had to issue a new ticket and that required grabbing the current fare. One of WN’s justifications (among many many) for Amadeus was ability to reliably do revenue standby and possibly monetizing it with fees by fare class.

      But yeah, I agree that from the airport side of things, if you can get rid of someone, it’s always better. I would get crap sometimes for authorizing my agents in an extreme oversale and there was another airline ticket like sub $200 available for someone, just grab the next 4 people who check in at the counter and give it to them. We don’t have to deal with it later, and they come away potentially happy (or better yet someone is flying to ORD, we ask where are they ultimately going and they say oh we’re gonna catch a bus to IND…. oh, we can put them on a WN nonstop to IND for $160, win win win!).

      1. Kilroy Avatar
        Kilroy

        I’ve even had a similar thing happen when my flight was delayed, and I asked the gate agent if I could get on another flight (this time a departure that was schedule later) with plenty of open seats, that I figured would probably depart earlier than my original (delayed) flight would have… I was told by the gate agent that I couldn’t do that without a change fee, but in that case I was able to go through online chat and get them to approve the change free of charge.

        Again, to your point, if there’s an empty seat that you’re not going to sell and the pax is at the airport, get rid of the pax ASAP and get them out of your hair, especially if the pax is on a delayed flight. It’s the best thing for the airline and the pax.

        1. NedsKid Avatar
          NedsKid

          Used to do this when I had a station with frequent flights to LGA (about 8-9 a day). Usually it was a rolling mass of people trying to go early (which we allowed for free to standby)… but my agents understood it was basically a sin to send out an empty seat to LGA early in the day. They’d do concourse pages asking if anyone on a LGA flight wanted to go NOW as there were open seats. By the time GDPs and other ATC programs got into play, or something in the summertime evening canceled to abate delays, we were in good shape. Yeah, you wanna cancel the 8pm to move the 10pm back to ontime? Go for it… we only have 40 people left on it.

          1. Kilroy Avatar
            Kilroy

            Interesting and agreed… If you have > 3 or 4 flights a day to a destination, don’t let the early flights leave empty if you can help it.

            Sounds like you knew which corporate policies / rules to bend or ignore in favor of improving operations and the customer experience.

  8. CraigTPA Avatar
    CraigTPA

    As long as the software expense isn’t too great, this makes sense, both for the potential additional revenue and possible extra customer satisfaction, especially if the customer’s plans are flexible but doesn’t want to play VDB roulette hoping for a possible overbook situation.

    I had this happen with Alaska last month, $30 to change TPA-SEA. They offered the same flight one day earlier, and I actually considered it to spend an extra day in Seattle, but the trip was already overbudget and would have meant more on car rental and hotel.

    That problem of losing additional purchases exists at AS too…despite my trip being overbudget, I took a last-minute offer for a discounted upgrade to First. I’d pre-ordered a sandwich in coach, but when I upgraded the purchase disappeared. I idly asked about it at the gate, if nothing else to see that if it had been loaded could I get it to eat later, but the system didn’t show it at all – the gate agent had seen this before and he’d been told that apparently it just disappears when the first-class meal choice (which I couldn’t pre-select) comes into your record.

    Not worried about $12, but odd.

    (The bone-in chicken breast I had on the flight was the best domestic First meal I’ve ever had. Nice work by AS, especially coming from an outstation.)

  9. Bill from DC Avatar
    Bill from DC

    I read this wondering why it merited the Cranky Jackass award but then looked at the graphic again and realized it was just an Ask Cranky. I do miss the Jackass though…

    1. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      I’m not sure if it’s just that no one has done something egregious enough to earn the Cranky Jackass Award, or if there are so many airlines doing them that Brett can’t choose just one or two and doesn’t have enough time to cover them all.

  10. Jason G Avatar
    Jason G

    Alaska does the same thing. I am sure they get some traction with it, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it. And it probably saves them a lot of money when they get takers as opposed to a bidding war at the gate.

  11. David SF eastbay Avatar
    David SF eastbay

    I understand their logic in doing this, but it’s wrong not to refund the passenger for something they paid for that will not carry over to the new flight. Also, the heck with credit, give me the money you are offering back to my credit card.

  12. Bob T Avatar
    Bob T

    I work in reservations for a major airline. For the amounts being offered in the examples the flights are certainly not overbooked. Rather (as Cranky explains) this is being used for revenue management purposes. If a flight is truly overbooked to the extent that there is a risk of an involuntary denied boarding the compensation offered would be considerably higher (in the hundreds of dollars). Airlines would much rather resolve overbooking issues in advance versus at the gate where folks are already committed to taking the flight.

  13. CraigTPA Avatar
    CraigTPA

    @BobT – It could be that the flight is not fully booked or overbooked yet, but the revenue model is signalling that full booking/overbooking is a possibility, so a chance to move a few people off planes with minimal compensation is called for.

    I also wonder if this could be used (at least in the future, if not now) if a downgauge is scheduled early enough, or if longer-range weather forecasts signal increased chance of weather cancellations.

    This may look like it calls for a Declaration of Shenanigans. But it’s entirely voluntary, the passenger is in control. The passenger can still take their flight if the offer isn’t actually better for them.

    The only shenanigan-esque part is the loss of payment for additional services, and that should be fixable on the IT side.

  14. Mac Avatar
    Mac

    I got this offer on a flight from MDW-CUN. My original flight was on a Tuesday and the only other flight they were offering was two days earlier, on a Sunday. That’s quite a big difference, I can’t imagine most people would take the offer, especially for a $20 credit. I however took the offer because I would need to end up cancelling that trip anyway. So I changed my flight, got the $20 credit, then a few days later I cancelled my booking.

    My plans change very frequently and I’m admittedly bad at keeping track of my credits, so I rely on that section of the airline apps to help me know what I have available. Interestingly, this credit won’t appear in the app as it’s issued as a LUV Voucher and not a credit. These vouchers cannot be applied to taxes/fees but with such little value ($20-$30) you likely need another form of payment anyway

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