Ask Cranky: Is Southwest Overbooking Again?


I haven’t done an entry in this series for a long time, and honestly when I got this email from a reader, I didn’t think I’d be doing it here either. But then, it turns out, the answer is far more interesting than I expected.

Let’s start with the question from William…

I haven’t seen this before. Has Southwest quietly changed its overbooking policy? I’m always game for a voluntary bump, but there’s no way I’ll do this for $30. Could they give that amount to me in rolled up pennies as an alternative, maybe? I guess Southwest is looking for people who wanted to change, but the fares were too high.

He included a screenshot of an email where indeed he was offered $30 if he wanted to change his flight. I’ve seen other airlines do this, but I, like William, assumed Southwest wouldn’t do this since it doesn’t overbook. My guess at the time was that he was just downgauged from a B737-800/-8 to a B737-700, so they had to offload some passengers. But then I got the same email.

To be fair, this wasn’t the exact same email. Mine was only $20 instead of $30. But I was always scheduled on a B737-700, so this couldn’t have been a downgauge. Is Southwest overbooking again? No. No it’s not.

The dots finally connected when this press release from Volantio came out on October 15. Apparently, Southwest will send emails to customers on high-demand flights to try to get them to move on to a different option. This is what Volantio apparently calls “Post-Booking Revenue Management.” Maybe that’s an industry term and I’m just not aware of it, but it does make sense.

As I see it, the idea is that within a week of travel, Southwest may have regrets. If it sold cheap seats and demand remains strong, it could have sold those seats for more money. So, it will open up flexibility for travelers. Not only will it allow them to change for free, but they’ll throw a small enticement in. In my case, it was $20 in future credit. In William’s case, it was $30.

I can’t imagine any traveler being swayed by the small amount of credit. This is more about finding the traveler who maybe wanted to switch anyway. In that case, it should be a no-brainer… if it was implemented better. As you see in that email, if you switch, you will lose any upgraded/EarlyBird boarding that you purchased. You don’t even get your money back. You just lose.

This is a temporary issue, of course, since assigned seating comes in January. But I am rather curious to see how they decide to handle it when people have paid for Extra Legroom seating when the time comes.

For me, this was a non-starter anyway. I didn’t have flexibility on time. But Southwest did give me three options in case I did. The first two were ridiculous since they were two full days earlier, but the third was just a morning flight that same day. I can see that being appealing to some people.

In this case, I paid somewhere around $170 one way. Right now, the cheapest ticket on that flight is selling for $240. If I can move to a different flight, even if you count the $20 credit as cash, they still stand to make an extra $50 if they can resell it.

This requires the system to be reasonably good at predicting if a seat can be resold or not, but this is also not new technology. There is a track record. I was offered the same thing by Alaska earlier this year. I just assumed it was related to overbooking, but there’s no reason it has to be.

This feels like a nice little opportunity to juice revenue just a bit by offering something that should only be viewed as a benefit to the customer. I say it “should” be viewed that way, because the current implementation that takes away your priority boarding has an absolute downside. Hopefully that will change in January. If the math works right, the upside is there for the airline.

So, that’s the answer, William. Thanks for leading me to learn more about exactly what was going on here.

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Brett Avatar

43 responses to “Ask Cranky: Is Southwest Overbooking Again?”

  1. Lost Luggage Avatar
    Lost Luggage

    I came across this topic last week and will give the heads up to my sister and niece who are big time Southwest fliers.
    Make them aware about the measly cash reward and corresponding forfeit of seat or boarding upgrades fees.
    What else does Southwest have in its back pocket?

  2. Wany Avatar
    Wany

    Seen many posts on Reddit with similar offer and crazy options that are +/- several days. It would be interesting to see how many actually took this offer.
    I had a recent experience with Icelandair doing something similar. I was given 24 h to accept a first come first serve offer of $100 to move my flights 2 days ealier. While $100 sounds a bit better than $20, it still seems ridiculous low given the cost of a typical iceland trip.

  3. Neil Avatar
    Neil

    Alaska does this pretty regularly as well. Some of their rewards can be a bit more enticing (I’ve seen as high as $75 but also as low as $25).

    1. Drew Avatar
      Drew

      Yes, I’ve gotten several of these from Alaska this year.

  4. Emil Avatar
    Emil

    $20 for the Kettles that fly on Southwest is a fortune

    1. Dan Avatar
      Dan

      Agreed. Never could understand how anyone who flies more than once a year could put up with an airline with no reserved seating and no F cabin. SW is apparently bringing its hillbilly ethos to its new iteration as an “adult” airline once it starts doing reserved seating.

      1. Brad Avatar
        Brad

        I’m with you, I have always avoided WN with a passion.

        Back when WN was cheap ($29 flights), that was an argument for WN, the free bags were a positive, and the fact that WN service out of DEN was plentiful also helped. Back in the day, the lack of change fees, flexibility to move flights around and to book and cancel and rebook when prices dropped also were a point in favor of doing this, especially if you fly WN often enough to eat up the credits you’ve created fast enough.

        But now, I don’t know what the argument for taking WN is and I see some subtle signs of a shift to UA (at least in DEN) for some of the frequent WN fliers when the price/schedule/destination works out better than what WN offers.

        1. David M Avatar

          The big argument for taking WN is the point to point network. If you live in a bigger city that’s not a hub for one of the other airlines, chances are your nonstop flights on other airlines are just to hubs, meaning you have to connect to get where you’re going. But Southwest offers a lot of point to point flights, so there’s a better chance you can get a nonstop to where you’re going with them.

      2. CraigTPA Avatar
        CraigTPA

        Yeah, WN isn’t the cheap-and-cheerful alternative it used to be, but introducing assigned seats takes them pretty much to being the same as the majors and Alaska. If you fly more than once a year but are still well short of traveling enough, especially in these days of revenue-based programs, the absence of first class doesn’t make a material difference because you’re never going to get status that would get you F upgrades anyway, and that’s true for many people who aren’t “hillbillies”.

        WN introducing assigned seating gets rid of the last big qualm a lot of people had about them (including me, if two carriers have the same or similar fares and schedules I’ll book the other carrier just to avoid Bingo Boarding.)

        1. Brad Avatar
          Brad

          As a bag checker since the mid 1980s when I started traveling regularly (12-25 trips a year), the assigned seating announcement with the bonus of extra legroom seating on WN made me think for a brief moment that they would become an acceptable option if the stars properly aligned, but then I remembered that they planned start charging for bags before they have the seating improvements in place. Took WN off the “thinking of flying if needed list” and back to the avoid at all costs list.

          Free bags and E+ seating on UA trumps the WN way everyday.

          1. CraigTPA Avatar
            CraigTPA

            The free bags vs seating improvement timing was purely Elliott and their supporters demanding revenue faster than IT could deliver improvements. Sucks, but that’s what happens with activist institutional investors, and it’ll end soon.

            And to get the free bags on UA you either have to have status or (I presume, I haven’t looked in ages) the credit card. E+ requires status or paying for it (and I’m only 5’9″ so legroom by itself doesn’t really move the needle for me until you’re in F9/NK territory.) Again, if you fly enough for status, then loyalty makes more sense.

            Now if everything else is the same or close, then I’ll choose UA (or any other big six airline) over WN for the general experience.

            1. Brad Avatar
              Brad

              I admit that flying out of DEN makes my choices easy, and I’ve been flying regularly for 40 years (geez, I’m old!) and have *Gold status so yes, all the benefits of loyalty tip the scales quickly to UA and away from other carriers that serve DEN.

              You also get at least one bag with most UA credit cards, so you can offset that charge without status and you can do that on WN as well.

              The fact that I’m 6’2″ (and shrinking, but probably not to the point where non-E+ seats will ever have enough legroom to be comfortable) makes E+ a valued benefit for me.

              The schedule is also better on UA, I’ve gone almost everywhere I need to go nonstop for the last 6-8 years. In fact, a few weeks ago had my first plane change on UA since before COVID. (@ORD) WN often offers one or infrequently two hops to get some of the places I can go direct on UA.

      3. Darin Avatar
        Darin

        When I flew LAX-PHX vv regularly, WN would often win out due to frequency/schedule (unless I needed that 6am AA departure. Oof). I never checked bags and 9/10 times able to get a window. If it was a crap seat the flight was short enough that I could manage. WN was also a player when the only nonstop in the market ex., LAX-OAK, MKE-LAX. When my family came along I appreciated family boarding after A group no matter what we were assigned, but still preferred to travel on an airline that offered an economy plus style product.

        Seating roulette was always a turn off though, glad that is gone. Likewise I’m here for the extra legroom. Problem is I don’t want to actually pay for those things since I get them for free on AA and UA.

  5. Tonei Glavinic Avatar
    Tonei Glavinic

    I mean it’s right there in the email what they plan to do – “seat upgrade purchases will be forfeited”. Not sure if it’s an IT limitation or they’re just dead set on not letting anyone get a refund for early bird/upgraded boarding/seat fees outside of irops

    1. Jason H Avatar
      Jason H

      It’s probably that IT can’t do it automatically, and they can’t be bothered to do it manually so they just make it policy not to.

      I doubt that the majority of passengers buy those upgrades though, especially ones who would be tempted to switch flights for just $20.

  6. NedsKid Avatar
    NedsKid

    I am with you Brett that if it were same day and worked at least neutrally for me, why not. Especially with the coming of seat assignments where if I can get a comparable seat… whereas today I think there is sometimes a bit of a gamble with the boarding number algorithm versus those who originally booked on the flight (Early Bird does, or at least used to, take booking date into account and have heard reports of people moving flights and getting booking date reset for this purpose – not that it really moves the needle much).

    I have had an offer of $30 and a $50 before from WN in years past… though that was I’m sure motivated by something different. Both times were the same week in December booked out of SNA – they were already restricting ticket sales at that point due to the passenger cap approaching. But $50 to move my SNA-OAK to fly out of BUR and you aren’t gonna transport me over to BUR? Maybe if they offered LGB.. But I don’t see many people in the LA area willing to swap airports like that for so little money unless it’s someone who is there on business or vacation and either won’t be out of pocket for ground transport, or at the moment of the offer priced it out on the Uber app and saw oh, that’s not bad (then when it’s time to go it’s 4x the price and takes 3x as long).

    I’m shocked airlines haven’t done this before… and always, when I was on the operations side, thought that the best thing to do was fill seats before they expired at departure time. It only solves a yet-to-be-known issue later in the day. I’ve had AA proactively (against my will) rebook me off an estimated missed connection, then I make the original connections to be told that because I didn’t meet the deadline to add myself to standby back on my original flight in the app they can’t help me, push with empty seats, then have the rebooked last flight of the night take volunteers… They’ve rectified some of that purposeful unhelpfulness recently.

    1. 1990 Avatar
      1990

      Hi NedsKid, again, nice to see you. Would an offer to switch from SNA to BUR be like switching between LGA to JFK or EWR? If so, yeah, that could cost $50-100 in taxi/rideshares. A merely $30-50 isn’t always enough to cover the fixed cost, less so the ‘inconvenience’ and extra effort that then passengers need to employ to get to the other airport. If it’s an option, that’s one thing; if it’s involuntary, all because of a ‘business decision’ by the airline, then all costs should be covered by the company, not the passengers.

      1. NedsKid Avatar
        NedsKid

        1990 – Hello, good to see you as well! Let’s keep the crazies out… Yes, SNA to BUR is about 50 miles pretty much a straight shot up I-5. So yeah, some of the time it’s like going LGA to JFK, some times like going LGA to EWR, or like right now in rush hour it’s about like going LGA to ACY. It’s a 105 minute estimated drive (though it’s 930am in the west now, somewhere out there in annex land after you cross flyover country). The cheapest rideshare is a Lyft at $110. I doubt it really goes much below $50. Not NYC prices but still….

  7. Kilroy Avatar
    Kilroy

    On a somewhat related topic, I’ve been in situations where I’ve gotten to the gate early enough that an earlier flight to the same destination (with plenty of empty seats) hasn’t yet boarded, only to be told by the gate agents that if I wanted to get on that earlier flight I’d have to pay the fare difference + change fee.

    I’ve always wondered if that is really the best ting for airlines to do, even for basic economy fares, at least for flight changes very close to departure time (say, within 3 hours) or when the passenger is already airside in the terminal. If a pax has a seat on the 830a flight which is 100% fully booked, but the 730a flight has plenty of empty seats, I would think it would only help revenue overall if the pax were allowed to shift to the earlier flight free of charge.

    I understand that pax could try to game the system (book a later, cheaper flight, and then try to get onto an earlier, more expensive flight at their own risk), and that change fees are moneymakers. However, the cost to the airline to make the change is near zero (especially if the pax didn’t check a bag), and freeing up a seat on the fully booked flight has the potential to generate significant revenue. Also, from an operations side, I’d presume that the more empty seats can be shifted to flights later in the day, the better, in case of IRROPS etc.

    1. NedsKid Avatar
      NedsKid

      I know that Southwest did the whole pay fare difference to go earlier thing because that was a system limitation with its old res system. They basically had to issue a new ticket and that required grabbing the current fare. One of WN’s justifications (among many many) for Amadeus was ability to reliably do revenue standby and possibly monetizing it with fees by fare class.

      But yeah, I agree that from the airport side of things, if you can get rid of someone, it’s always better. I would get crap sometimes for authorizing my agents in an extreme oversale and there was another airline ticket like sub $200 available for someone, just grab the next 4 people who check in at the counter and give it to them. We don’t have to deal with it later, and they come away potentially happy (or better yet someone is flying to ORD, we ask where are they ultimately going and they say oh we’re gonna catch a bus to IND…. oh, we can put them on a WN nonstop to IND for $160, win win win!).

      1. Kilroy Avatar
        Kilroy

        I’ve even had a similar thing happen when my flight was delayed, and I asked the gate agent if I could get on another flight (this time a departure that was schedule later) with plenty of open seats, that I figured would probably depart earlier than my original (delayed) flight would have… I was told by the gate agent that I couldn’t do that without a change fee, but in that case I was able to go through online chat and get them to approve the change free of charge.

        Again, to your point, if there’s an empty seat that you’re not going to sell and the pax is at the airport, get rid of the pax ASAP and get them out of your hair, especially if the pax is on a delayed flight. It’s the best thing for the airline and the pax.

        1. NedsKid Avatar
          NedsKid

          Used to do this when I had a station with frequent flights to LGA (about 8-9 a day). Usually it was a rolling mass of people trying to go early (which we allowed for free to standby)… but my agents understood it was basically a sin to send out an empty seat to LGA early in the day. They’d do concourse pages asking if anyone on a LGA flight wanted to go NOW as there were open seats. By the time GDPs and other ATC programs got into play, or something in the summertime evening canceled to abate delays, we were in good shape. Yeah, you wanna cancel the 8pm to move the 10pm back to ontime? Go for it… we only have 40 people left on it.

          1. Kilroy Avatar
            Kilroy

            Interesting and agreed… If you have > 3 or 4 flights a day to a destination, don’t let the early flights leave empty if you can help it.

            Sounds like you knew which corporate policies / rules to bend or ignore in favor of improving operations and the customer experience.

          2. 1990 Avatar
            1990

            NedsKid, so those seem like reasonable business decisions (consolidating a late flight into a later one that is empty), but, if the delay is several hours, shouldn’t those affected passengers (on the earlier flight) be compensated something for the inconvenience, the lost time, etc. Eh, you’d think logistics/transportation companies would care about folks time.

            1. NedsKid Avatar
              NedsKid

              1990, I guess that depends. If you were on a flight that was delayed and got onto a flight that is now operating at or before your original departure time, then you’ve been done a favor.

              If it’s all weather/ATC, then well, your mileage may vary. And compensation is often (or for us was often) a $25-50 e-voucher you had to use in one hit. Easily emailed out. The breakage on those is massive (like less than 40% get used in their entirety, and we weren’t a ULCC so in the usage of it you likely still gave us more cash). Would still rather play musical chairs, get some people there early, and issue comp to 50 people rather than do nothing and end up delaying more people, potentially canceling a full flight, and having to deal with 150 pissed off people at 1am.

  8. CraigTPA Avatar
    CraigTPA

    As long as the software expense isn’t too great, this makes sense, both for the potential additional revenue and possible extra customer satisfaction, especially if the customer’s plans are flexible but doesn’t want to play VDB roulette hoping for a possible overbook situation.

    I had this happen with Alaska last month, $30 to change TPA-SEA. They offered the same flight one day earlier, and I actually considered it to spend an extra day in Seattle, but the trip was already overbudget and would have meant more on car rental and hotel.

    That problem of losing additional purchases exists at AS too…despite my trip being overbudget, I took a last-minute offer for a discounted upgrade to First. I’d pre-ordered a sandwich in coach, but when I upgraded the purchase disappeared. I idly asked about it at the gate, if nothing else to see that if it had been loaded could I get it to eat later, but the system didn’t show it at all – the gate agent had seen this before and he’d been told that apparently it just disappears when the first-class meal choice (which I couldn’t pre-select) comes into your record.

    Not worried about $12, but odd.

    (The bone-in chicken breast I had on the flight was the best domestic First meal I’ve ever had. Nice work by AS, especially coming from an outstation.)

  9. Bill from DC Avatar
    Bill from DC

    I read this wondering why it merited the Cranky Jackass award but then looked at the graphic again and realized it was just an Ask Cranky. I do miss the Jackass though…

    1. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      I’m not sure if it’s just that no one has done something egregious enough to earn the Cranky Jackass Award, or if there are so many airlines doing them that Brett can’t choose just one or two and doesn’t have enough time to cover them all.

  10. Jason G Avatar
    Jason G

    Alaska does the same thing. I am sure they get some traction with it, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it. And it probably saves them a lot of money when they get takers as opposed to a bidding war at the gate.

    1. Seanny Avatar
      Seanny

      I hadn’t thought about that, you rarely see bidding at the gate with Alaska even though the flights are always full out of SEA

  11. David SF eastbay Avatar
    David SF eastbay

    I understand their logic in doing this, but it’s wrong not to refund the passenger for something they paid for that will not carry over to the new flight. Also, the heck with credit, give me the money you are offering back to my credit card.

  12. Bob T Avatar
    Bob T

    I work in reservations for a major airline. For the amounts being offered in the examples the flights are certainly not overbooked. Rather (as Cranky explains) this is being used for revenue management purposes. If a flight is truly overbooked to the extent that there is a risk of an involuntary denied boarding the compensation offered would be considerably higher (in the hundreds of dollars). Airlines would much rather resolve overbooking issues in advance versus at the gate where folks are already committed to taking the flight.

  13. CraigTPA Avatar
    CraigTPA

    @BobT – It could be that the flight is not fully booked or overbooked yet, but the revenue model is signalling that full booking/overbooking is a possibility, so a chance to move a few people off planes with minimal compensation is called for.

    I also wonder if this could be used (at least in the future, if not now) if a downgauge is scheduled early enough, or if longer-range weather forecasts signal increased chance of weather cancellations.

    This may look like it calls for a Declaration of Shenanigans. But it’s entirely voluntary, the passenger is in control. The passenger can still take their flight if the offer isn’t actually better for them.

    The only shenanigan-esque part is the loss of payment for additional services, and that should be fixable on the IT side.

  14. Mac Avatar
    Mac

    I got this offer on a flight from MDW-CUN. My original flight was on a Tuesday and the only other flight they were offering was two days earlier, on a Sunday. That’s quite a big difference, I can’t imagine most people would take the offer, especially for a $20 credit. I however took the offer because I would need to end up cancelling that trip anyway. So I changed my flight, got the $20 credit, then a few days later I cancelled my booking.

    My plans change very frequently and I’m admittedly bad at keeping track of my credits, so I rely on that section of the airline apps to help me know what I have available. Interestingly, this credit won’t appear in the app as it’s issued as a LUV Voucher and not a credit. These vouchers cannot be applied to taxes/fees but with such little value ($20-$30) you likely need another form of payment anyway

  15. John G Avatar
    John G

    This just brings some illumination on the lie that WN had been perpetrating about change fees.

    They spent lots of ad money telling us they don’t jade change fees.

    That’s true.

    However, when you change most of the time the good fare you may have gotten when you made the reservation is gone. And the full fare is hundreds more. It’s a bait and switch big time.

  16. JT8D Avatar
    JT8D

    I’ve seen people on Reddit complaining about getting emails like this. I think one, perhaps unanticipated, downside of such a program is people getting upset about being taken for idiots when getting an email like this.

    In other words, what kind of fool do you take me for?

    People tend to look at communications from airlines they’re about to travel with. Airlines need to not abuse that too much. From what I can tell, there are people who are annoyed at the idea the airline would think them so stupid.

    For what it’s worth, this idea is hardly new – I’ve seen, over a decade ago, presentations that included this exact notion. Making a success of it is all about clever execution and this doens’t seem very clever.

    1. NedsKid Avatar
      NedsKid

      I struggle with WN rolling out things that may be just like other airlines (which is fine on its own) because they seem to stumble and not execute very well. I’ve heard a lot of feedback from customer service & ops agents about the training they are undergoing for assigned seats – it’s extremely involved and complicated. Why need it be? Southwest does a good job of promoting from within but has horribly massive policy/procedure departments, most of whom seem to have no clue what goes on in the industry outside of Southwest. They reinvent the wheel with every step and it just seems poorly executed much of the time. They act like assigned seats is some revolutionary thing – it’s isn’t. Just like they acted like putting USB ports on planes was some massive technological innovation – it isn’t – 22 years ago I was charging my laptop in coach on an AA F-100 or S80 (mind you needed an adapter to do it).

      I don’t love flying Southwest. I see no reason to select them over anyone else, other than perhaps the last couple of years where they’ve had the cheapest walk-up and Business Select was available so I still got my choice of seat even buying 90 minutes to departure. Inflight service is inferior to even AA (who at least gives you a full can of drink). I’ve flown them on a 3 hour flight instead of UA when it meant getting home 2 hours earlier at the end of the week, but that was only because I knew with A1-5 I was going to get the seat I wanted. Or where they have the first or last flight of the day somewhere and that makes it convenient. I’ll fly Spirit across country long before WN – at least there I can get more than a shot of water and get very fast WiFi – and can stroll on the plane last and know I’ll have room for my carryon and a saved seat of my choice.

      1. Brad Avatar
        Brad

        NedsKid, I think you subtly hit one of the most important points, and that is does our experience meet or exceed our expectations, to wit: “Inflight service is inferior to even AA (who at least gives you a full can of drink)”

        Each one of us has different expectations. You’re expecting WN to have the same level of inflight service as AA, whereas I’m not, and this makes a difference. When I have booked WN (happens every couple of years), I don’t have high expectations of their inflight service, I know that I’m going to get a cup of something and a little bag of something. It is all I expect and it doesn’t bother me. When I fly UA, especially in F, I expect my glass of water to be refilled a few times and mostly that happens so I’m happy.

        Previously, my expectations on WN were that I get two free bags (always need one, but occasionally the assignment requires a second) and a flight that gets me there safely and reasonably on time. The boarding circus is what lets so many people down. I check in exactly 24 hours in advance, often get B5 or something close to that and so now I expect a non-middle seat on the airplane, toward the front is better but non-middle is the goal. Too often, that expectation has been unmet, between the often ~30ish disabled pre-boarders and the 40-50 (sometimes more) family boarders between A & B and now I’ve been bumped to the C group hunting for a passable seat. B5 was a mirage and I’m unhappy! THIS unmet expectation is why WN has been on my no fly list for decades.

        So, they cure the main objection that I have to flying WN BUT they take away what I had expected in free bags and it just really doesn’t work for me. YMMV

        In the service business, if you tell someone you’ll be there in 20 minutes and take an hour they’re rightfully unhappy, but if you set the expectation at an hour they’re fine with it and even happier if you show up in 20 minutes. WN for years set expectations of what they would deliver and with the non-subtle prodding of Elliott, they have gone and messed with that. That is going to cost them, at least in the short term and perhaps longer. This will be a good test down the road of how long it takes for people to reset their expectations to a new system. Those that don’t check a bag and wanted an assigned seat will be happy immediately, those who were ingrained in the free bags will be reminded of the change every time they have to pay a bag fee on WN. It may take some of them a long time to get over that.

        1. NedsKid Avatar
          NedsKid

          Brad, 
          I am with you on the boarding – I once had A1 and was the 27th person to board the airplane. The ops agent (important distinction – the person at the boarding door scanning passes is in a different union than the one at the main gate counter and they can’t do each others tasks) was just letting anybody on who walked up it seemed, regardless of pre-board or not. I happened to work for another airline (and had bought a ticket) so I knew exactly who was sitting in both exit row aisles when I got on – the Regional Director and the Station Manager. I made the not so subtle comment to the Director that wow, with paying for A1 I’m shocked to see so many not-for-pre-boarders seats taken. That is an extreme case of the boarding system fault, but I’ve had the same where a connecting flight is running late and while I made the connection with WN, regardless of what boarding number I had, I got on and was told I had 3 middle seats to select from, which is why on a 3 hour flight I paid for upgraded boarding. 

          WN suffers from trying to be like the rest but doing it their own way. They have benefited from probably the most brand loyalty of any airline in the past because of being different. But now? People are being treated like every other airline and the elements that are lacking in comparison are even more glaring. As you quoted me on the service in comparison to AA…. I consider AA to generally be the lowest bar. Southwest was different with chatty friendly crews taking drink orders personally and coming back and serving each person – but as they’re flying planes now always chock full with 175 people, it’s become inefficient.. There’s today usually at least one trip back to the galley to make the next tray of drinks now. I have several good friends who are F/As with WN – and there are many crew members militant about the “I only have to take care of these 8 rows” division. I’ve been on flights where the zone in front of me all had drinks and were getting refills offered and trash picked up before anybody in my zone had anything at all. Or flight attendants will walk by with a bag and collect trash from row 8 while telling row 9 – “Your flight attendant will collect yours.” But, WN being WN has gone so far down the road of being different with galley configs they can’t undo it without massive cost. I’m curious to see how service changes with certain rows now going to get different service. 

          I think the Southwest line of how even though they’ve gone to bag fees, and will have assigned seats, like everyone else but “we’re still different, we have heart” is shining a spotlight on the differences in a bad way, or highlighting how they’re just like everyone else in different ways like having the ops agents required to tag a certain number of bags for gate check on flights (and then see overhead bins with space when you board). 

      2. 1990 Avatar
        1990

        NedsKid, good to see you on here. As far as inferior inflight service goes, yeah, those of us who were connoisseurs of those delicious honey-roasted peanuts were ‘miffed’ to say the least when they stopped serving them around 2018. Never forget!

  17. 1990 Avatar
    1990

    While I appreciate that airlines are mostly businesses, not charities, it feels so ‘2025’ that any company would do a ‘whoopsie’ like this by selling tickets ‘too cheap’ far in-advance (a nice zero-interest loan for them, sorta), then try to ‘trick’ customers into giving up their better ‘deal,’ and not even provide refunds for upgraded services (EarlyBird boarding), all so that the company can profit more by selling at a higher price later. At some point, companies like Southwest will lose any remaining loyal customers; Elliott (mis)Management seems set on doing that. No more free bags, seats, or flexible credits; less for more. Another case study in ‘profits over people.’ But, it doesn’t have to be this way; I wish we had better consumer protections, so that such deceptive practices like this would not happen.

    1. NedsKid Avatar
      NedsKid

      1990, Very true. Though I think the audience on this site can see through it for what it is. So will a lot of people. But I was shocked (probably more so than I should have been) when dealing with the actual traveling public that so many people in the US seemingly have such fluid schedules. Yeah, there are people who for $20 will go a day early. I guess they’re crashing on someone’s couch. Or going home from school. Or…. Who knows. I’ve never really been in a position even from high school on where I had the luxury of not having to be somewhere at some point, but many do….

      Back when I worked at AirTran, we had the AirTran U standby program. If you were between like 18 and 22 you could buy a $49-99 standby ticket (depending on distance) and you’d be top of the standby list. You couldn’t buy before getting to the airport, I believe, and cleared onto flights at the end when there were seats. So many would connect and get to like Atlanta and well, can’t get to NYC because everything is full and something canceled… where else will my $59 ticket get me? Oh, Detroit is the same price? It has seats? I’ll go there instead. Maybe I was raised by a multi-million miler frequent flyer too well (or to an over planning detriment) that I don’t typically go somewhere without having an idea of like where am I gonna stay. And this was the days before the proliferation of smart phones….. If you were lucky you could get your 20 pound laptop on weak Wi-Fi or if you had a blackberry get a rudimentary web search done…. I don’t know what I’d do with myself having such little responsibility I had utmost flexibility.

  18. JohnE Avatar
    JohnE

    Oddly enough, this article was just posted about WN choosing a provider for “post booking revenue management.” I guess there is an entire industry around this now.
    https://www.futuretravelexperience.com/2025/10/southwest-airlines-selects-volantio-as-post-booking-revenue-management-provider/

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