JSX Turboprop Plans Begin to Come Out


Since the beginning, JSX has focused on flying Embraer 135s/145s with 30 seats onboard to provide that premium experience customers want get around rules that wouldn’t allow this kind of service with more than 30 seats. Naturally, JSX has leaned into that seat limitation to create a premium experience all around including the use of private terminals. Of course, the airplane itself is only part of the story, but JSX is now making a big bet that customers will still consider it a premium experience even if it’s on a turboprop. And now we’re starting to hear where those airplanes will fly.

JSX said earlier in the summer that it would soon begin ATR-42 service. Initial plans have only recently become more clear. Service will begin with two leased ATR-42s that used to fly for Silver before it failed. The plan is to introduce them in California from Nov.

As of today, JSX serves eight airports in California including Concord, Monterey, Napa, and Oakland in the north along with Burbank, Carlsbad, LAX, and Orange County in the south. Nearby it also serves Las Vegas, Reno, and Scottsdale (AZ). These airports all work with 30-seat jets, apparently, so what does the airline need the ATRs for? Not these airports. It has other ideas.

Yes, they are cheaper to operate. Even with a 30-seat interior (it can hold around 50 usually, just like those ERJ-145s), the costs will be significantly less. But this doesn’t seem to be about cost. This seems to be about operational capability. ATR’s press release gives us more clues. In the release, JSX CEO Alex Wilcox is quoted as saying

The ATR -600 series will bring over 1,000 new airports into reach for JSX, expanding access to reliable public charter flights across the great United States. Many of these airports were, until now, reserved only for those who had the means to fly private…

So this is really a bet that JSX is making. It thinks passengers will be willing to tolerate the louder and slower turboprop in exchange for a more convenient airport. Maybe they will, but I wouldn’t call it a safe bet.

The question now is how much more convenient those airports will be. We know three targets so far.

Alex said at a recent event that the airline will eventually fly to Truckee (CA) and Telluride (CO). Those are high-altitude airports with challenging operating conditions. Both have runways of over 7,000 feet that are 100 feet wide, but Telluride sits more than 9,000 feet above sea level while Truckee is closer to 6,000 just north of Lake Tahoe.

Telluride sits on a plateau with a 1,000 foot drop at one end if you fail to stop in time. With winter weather being quite dicey, airlines generally opt to fly to nearby Montrose instead. But the demand to fly into Telluride remains great. With all the wealth in the area, people want the convenience and are willing to pay for it. Today, Denver Air Connection does actually fly jets in the market with the Dorner 328JET from both Phoenix and Denver. But that is a long out-of-production small jet that is uniquely able to handle operating at the airport. It’s great for Denver Air Connection, but it doesn’t provide much opportunity for anyone else.

Meanwhile, Truckee doesn’t have any commecial service at all. It sits on the north side of Lake Tahoe, opposite the old Lake Tahoe Airport which still lies on the south side but has been unable to support commercial service for 25 years. Truckee lies just off I-80, and it’s only about half an hour drive to the Reno airport from there. The thing is, when the weather is bad, that drive can take a lot longer.

Both of these airports serve very wealthy areas. They can also provide some rather turbulent flying experiences thanks to the mountainous terrain. I am very curious how people will feel about this service.

We don’t know what other airports make up that rather lengthy list of 1,000… except for one. Apparently JSX is trying to fly the ATR into Santa Monica on the west side of the LA Basin. This is one heck of a fight that, if JSX wins, will only let the airline fly for a couple years. After all, the residents of Santa Monica have a deep hatred of the airport. They got the runway cut down to 3,500 feet to eliminate most jet traffic, and the airport is scheduled to close for good at the end of 2028.

This service makes a lot of sense on the ATR in that it’s just about the only option that could use the airport. It is far more convenient than LAX for a very rich part of the LA area. I could easily imagine flights to Las Vegas operating from here, though they would be a little slower since the ATR is not known for its quick pace, to say the least.

But with Santa Monica closing soon, this seems like a waste of time. Maybe JSX hopes that Santa Monica will have a change of heart when they get this service. Yeah, right.

Overall, I do find this to be a really interesting pivot by JSX. In the US market, turboprops are decidedly viewed as inferior to jets by consumers. Acceptance is much lower here than it is in other countries. Yet JSX is a premium operation. Some of these airports are certainly attractive, but the tradeoff is slower flight times. That’s especially an issue in the West where distances are further.

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Brett Avatar

37 responses to “JSX Turboprop Plans Begin to Come Out”

  1. Billy L. Avatar
    Billy L.

    I wonder if they also looked into possibly sending them to (Santa) Catalina Island as well. That I feel could do really well for JSX.

    1. BK Avatar
      BK

      …and then the long, hot School Bus ride into town…?

    2. JT8D Avatar
      JT8D

      There’s a decent article on Wikipedia about some of the original Catalina service – seaplanes to a purpose built base (built by the Wrigley family) pre WWII and then after the war, United flying DC-3s to the airport built up on top. Look at “Wilmington-Catalina Airline”

  2. Matt D Avatar
    Matt D

    I wish we could get an airline….any airline at the airport nearest to where I live, Visalia (VIS). Just about ten miles away and I could drive to/from it to/from home entirely on back and side roads.

    VIS did have airline service years ago. But apparently struggled to fill even nine seaters. Why, no idea. Marketing? Outrageous fares? Odd service? My money would be on the last two: If I recall, the only service was to Burbank and Merced. Both within three hours drive time from here.

    Visalia and nearby Tulare (where I live) have a lot of average, regular people as well. If you expand the potential VIS catchment area to include Porterville and Hanford/Lemoore, that *should* be a decent small air travel market in its own right.

    And the city sold out its EAS subsidy eligibility for ten years in exchange for a couple of buildings. I think that decade is up either this year or next. I don’t recall off the top of my head. I’d have to look it up.

    VIS, the airport has a pretty long runway. I think, but also do not remember for certain, that it can handle at least anything that SNA can.

    I know, none of this is really germane to todays topic. But did get me into ruminating and wish list mode. But I do have some JSX pics that I’ve taken at both LAX and SNA. Of the little ones only. Haven’t gotten any of the 145 yet.

    1. JHS Avatar
      JHS

      I was an ATC at BFL 40 plus years ago. I recall pre-deregulation, United flew at least four daily 737s out of VIS. EAS and mostly empty, but still. I loved the early afternoon LAX-BFL-VIS-SFO run; the BFL-VIS leg was about ten minutes and climbed all the way up to 6000 feet.

    2. CraigTPA Avatar
      CraigTPA

      I just don’t see how service at VIS could possibly be considered “essential” when FAT is less than an hour away. Visalia Transit offers buses to FAT and there’s even free parking (if Wikipedia is current) at VIS for people flying out of FAT.

      SCASD money? Maybe. EAS? No.

      1. NedsKid Avatar
        NedsKid

        Once in the EAS program, as long as it satisfies the requirements for passenger count and subsidy book-ends per passenger for its range from a medium or large hub (I’m guessing Fresno is not classified as a Medium/Large hub as it has to do with percentage of overall national enplanements), it stays in the program.

        1. CraigTPA Avatar
          CraigTPA

          That’s a good argument for overhaul of the EAS program. FAT is classified as a “small hub”, but you can get to the majority of the US’ major cities from Fresno with a single connection on AA (DFW, PHX), DL (SLC), WN (DEN, LAS, SAN, seasonal DAL), and UA (DEN, LAX, SFO, seasonal ORD.) AS also has SAN, PDX, and SEA, although if you’re going to the east coast those last two are bit awkward, like when Kayak offers me a fare from TPA to SAN on JetBlue over Kennedy. Yeah, but nah.

          Connectivity should be the standard, and giving EAS to little airports relatively close to an airport with solid connectivity just undermines to build a solid regional airport.

    3. haolenate Avatar
      haolenate

      Matt D – I actually worked with Visalia on their last EAS bid (I worked for another airline that happened to win the “other” market it was paired with in California); and prior to that I worked for another airline that flew to VIS.

      The problem with VIS is actually tied to mother nature. The weather in the morning and evening is aweful. There is no official AWOS/ASOS at the airport, so we’d have to train agents on how to read it and relay the messages to dispatch/flight ops – theres no way to get the weather unless someone was physically there to read it and input the data (mind you, this was over 10 years ago and maybe they now have an automated weather system). While this is just one aspect, the dilemma is the operational minimums at the airport; the one airline I worked for that flew there had a huge diversion rate and flights scheduled in the morning or evening just didn’t work. I believe SkyWest, the last “real” airline to fly there, even did only afternoon flights because of the weather, and it was a tag-on to another market.

      I’m sorta glad we didn’t get the bid/award for Visalia, as we quickly learned in LAX that the ATC was making planes departing north to use the north complex/runways. This is what destroyed our flights to SMX – we planned on 1 hour 25 minutes, and on some flights, because of our location at the T6 complex, our taxi time JUST to get to the north was almost 1 hour. So those types of delays not only destroys the economics, its difficult on the customers who are in a 9 seat plane (thankfully ours have AC). It also would have tanked numbers at our “other” market, the one we did win, as we based the bid on 3 planes in CA, 1 at each city with the spare at the maintenance base (and then we were going to grow into CLD and OXR).

      We had a few very frank conversations with the airport and the weather was a big item we discussed. The airport, while they loved our bid, liked that we built in a 2 hour turn on the 1st flight of the morning and also in the evening, and even built in a contingency plan if we had to divert (which included basing a van at a nearby airport out of the valley). In the end, the airport board decided to take the EAS grant money. That was really a blessing in disguise for us, as we were known to be one of the “better” Part 135 operators at the time (can’t say that about them today, sadly). We would have had a VERY difficult time operating a reliable service to VIS with 4 flights a day to LAX, and it would have also hurt the other market we won (which, interestingly enough, we carried more pax in the 1st 2 mos of service in our “crappy” Caravans to LAX than SkyWest did with 2x Embraer Brasilias… ). We would have become another SeaPort. And we know how they ended up.

      1. Matt D Avatar
        Matt D

        Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

        But I’m lost on what is so bad about the weather here. I live (as I mentioned) just a few miles away in Tulare. And we seldom get much weather of any kind. Especially at the ends of the day.

        Winds are either calm or nonexistent. We get very little precipitation. The once notorious Tule fog hasn’t been much of an issue for most of the last decade because most of the rain has dried up and shifted away to a different pattern. T-storms in the summertime are maybe a once every 4-5 year event. No snow, hurricanes, tornadoes, or really, as I said, much of anything.

        Tulare/Visalia has some of the most stagnant, boring, and predictable weather in the nation. The only thing is the heat-from about May-October. And that’s usually late morning to late afternoon. Dusk certainly isn’t anything that couldn’t be handled.

        A WX forecast for the entire year could be written in just a few sentences: Jan-Apr: Cool and cool-ish. May-Oct: hot. Nov-Dec, cool, maybe a day or two of rain. Year round: sunny. Maybe a few patchy clouds here and there. Otherwise, overcast days where it’s not raining or expected to? Maybe five or ten days a year.

        That’s it. You can almost plan an entire years worth of activities just on the preceding paragraph.

        I’ve long felt that VIS would be a good candidate for Allegiant or maybe Breeze. But considering that G4 only has one less than daily flight to LAS out of FAT, well….maybe not.

        And yeah. The ops at LAX are sometimes odd. Spend more time taxiing and waiting than actual flying. But that’s not a VIS problem.

  3. Exit Row Seat Avatar
    Exit Row Seat

    Since turbo props are much more “Eco Friendly” compared to jets, JSX should request discounted landing fees at “Eco conscious” California airports.
    Governor Newsom could claim another Democratic Party West Coast victory for the environment to irritate Trump!!

    1. Kenneth Avatar
      Kenneth

      Not sure if you’re being serious, but that’s not a bad idea. People in the general aviation world complained and mocked California when it instituted a ban on leaded AVGAS, but without them doing it, there was no incentive for industry to roll out this solution. And for the “California is a hellscape!” crowd, I just enjoyed a tremendous time in Norcal – cooking local oysters over an open fire on the beach.

      1. NedsKid Avatar
        NedsKid

        I quite enjoy many of my visits to both Norcal and Socal (and to the “other” state – the inland portions). My family lived there for quite a bit of my adult life. I wouldn’t want to live there.

      2. Exit Row Seat Avatar
        Exit Row Seat

        Yes, I was serious about the discount. These ATRs are much more efficient flying into small, underserved markets happy to have any service!

        As for the governor, that was for fun!! =;-)

        1. haolenate Avatar
          haolenate

          Newsom may still be pissed at Alex for moving the company from Anaheim to Texas over the high corporate costs of existing in Kalifornia.

  4. Bill from DC Avatar
    Bill from DC

    Jets used to be much louder too, remember the 727, DC9 and L1011?

    Have turboprops had similar noise reductions and we’re all just living in the past since the vast majority of us haven’t been on one in two decades thanks to the RJ revolution? Or are they still really loud and annoying?

    I remember Alaska and Porter touted the Q400s as a next generation type of turboprop passenger aircraft but don’t know if that was marketing or reality.

    1. Matt D Avatar
      Matt D

      Oh yeah. You haven’t experienced jetliners unless you heard a 727, 737-200, or DC-9 straight pipe at throttle up. Those were the days. The L-1011 and DC-10 actually weren’t all that loud in comparison.

      I recently had to take a trip to SoCal to help a family member in conjunction with a medical procedure. And I flew there via a stopover in PHX. I intentionally booked it with a several hour layover so as to be able to get some watching and picture taking action in.

      Anyway, while there, an MD-80 made a surprise appearance for takeoff. And I was surprised at how loud it was compared to the parade of 737 NG’s, MAX’s, Airbus’, and Jungle Jets. And that plane, in its day, was touted as being pretty quiet. And it was, compared to the earlier ones mentioned.

      I’ve only flown in an ATR42 twice. And both times were way back in 1994. Took a R/T between PHL-EWR. It was fun. But the plane WAS slow, clunky, and wobbly. I don’t remember it as being any louder or quieter than any of the other props of the day. But again, it was more than three decades ago. I also flew on Brasilias and SAAB 340’s a couple of times. But 2025 pax might not be fans of that plane. And for those reasons.

      1. haolenate Avatar
        haolenate

        ATR-42-600s are rediculously quiet (as are the 72s) and very little vibration. The Italians did a good job on fixing that over the Shake/Rattle/Roll of the 1st generation ATR fleet…. my teeth are still vibrating from all those flights on them

    2. NedsKid Avatar
      NedsKid

      I flew on Silver any number of times on the new ATRs and have flown Porter Q400s as recently as last month. No noise difference from a jet (maybe a little quieter even).

      1. Oliver Avatar
        Oliver

        My recollection is that Horizon’s Q400s were noisier inside than the E175s that replaced them. Still liked flying them on short hops over the Cascades.

        1. James Avatar
          James

          I really liked Willy AB T-38 in afterburner climbing out over the Superstition Mountains.

        2. Kilroy Avatar
          Kilroy

          It’s been more than a few years since I flew the Q400s, but I have fond memories of them and the noise never bothered me.

          I really like seeing the props spin, and also appreciate the way that most airlines handle rollerboards with props (especially when boarding via stairs on the tarmac, instead of a jet bridge), in terms of having pax place/remove rollerboards onto carts.

  5. NedsKid Avatar
    NedsKid

    I like this move. And if you have been on an ATR-x2-600, you would know it’s not any louder than a regional jet. The cabin has more stand-up room and ATR has a nice interior arrangement for this sort of operation.

    Curious though, Brett, for the airports like Santa Monica and others in California especially, is anything on the books that would prevent JSX from starting this service? Doesn’t this sort of throw a wrench in the standard NIMBY plan? I mean, at many places just one airline flight a day is apparently noisier than the multiple private jets leaving before sunrise, so curious how the warped logic applies here.

    1. Brett Avatar

      NedsKid – I’ve been on a -600 and I do find the vibration to be the bigger annoyance than the noise, though the noise is different. But the real problem is longer flight times on that airplane. It is slow. I do like the airplane in general… as long as there’s no ice around.

      As for SMO,. there aren’t really private jets anymore, not many of them since they cut the runway down. But the only thing SMO can do is toy with the lease. Here’s the latest:
      https://smdp.com/government-politics-2/santa-monica-reaffirms-airport-closure-despite-jsx-application/

      But airports follow federal rules.

      1. NedsKid Avatar
        NedsKid

        Thanks Brett. Figured no jets at SMO with the short runway… but thinking about over at CLD as well with the one American Eagle E175 a day somehow going to be the straw the breaks the back sort of thing. I appreciate the article… always fun when a city tries to play with the airport which, as you point out rightly so, follow federal law.

        I can see what you say about the vibration. I think also it depends where you sit on the plane. I flew on 40-something CRJ-200/700/900s last year and sat pretty much forward of the exit row on all of them. I had an AA/PSA flight two weeks ago where I got on an earlier flight standby and sat in the last row. Wow, quite the noise difference.

        On a flight of sub-90 minutes, the time difference is measured in single digit minutes. It’s not just cruising speed but maneuverability that comes with the performance and slower speed to an extent. Usually get in/out of major airports more directly, even if it’s just to stay out of the way. Yeah, I get what you’re saying about ice… I’ve listened to the CVR from 4184 and spoken with people who worked the site. But they did fix those matters…

        1. JT8D Avatar
          JT8D

          40+ CRJ segments? You must have done something really bad in a prior life.

        2. haolenate Avatar
          haolenate

          Actually they didn’t really “fix” it. We’ve had 2 ATRs still fall from the sky due to icing. They’ve made it more obvious the plane is icing up, its just the pilots aren’t doing a proper job of avoiding it or getting out of it.

          Regarding CLD, its funny how they all are screaming over American Eagle’s EMB 175s, but kept their mouths shut with Uncle Ted’s Cal Pacific Airways debacle. I guess noise was OK back then.

          1. JT8D Avatar
            JT8D

            It’s weird that there was a gap in air service at CLD for so long. The demographics can’t be beat and for people who value their time, it’s far far better than schlepping to SAN.

            I don’t understand why United didn’t have E-170/175s to SFO the whole time. It’s a way to sidestep the competition at SAN.

            It’s gaps like this that make me question the competence of planning folks at the big airlines. The name of the game is convenience. There are a lot of rich people in North County who’d appreciate the time savings.

  6. Exit Row Seat Avatar
    Exit Row Seat

    If these ATRs fly in and out of LAX & SAN, don’t be surprised if PAX used them to make connections to trunkline carriers.
    Not sure if interline connections are allowed under FAA Part 135 (ie: will PAX need to buy separate tickets)?

    1. NedsKid Avatar
      NedsKid

      They can interline with anybody who wants to sign an agreement.

  7. Pilotaaron1 Avatar
    Pilotaaron1

    It’s interesting seeing new businesses come into Santa Monica airport 3 years from its planned close. Sling Pilot Academy and now this. I’m still pretty certain that the airport will close unfortunately. But it’s just interesting to see. I figured it would just slowly die off until the closure.

  8. JT8D Avatar
    JT8D

    Seems underwhelming. If this is JSX’s big idea…

    There’s always been this massive gap between commercial first class and private aircraft. Many, many people have tried to fill it. Lots of people trying to be the Uber of business jets or whatever, for instance.

    Pretty much the only one that was successful, long-term, after absorbing a ton of money (and many rueful statements by Warren Buffett in Berkshire Hathaway letters to investors) was NetJets, and that’s kind of the exception the proves the rule.

    Finding economically-viable things for ATRs to do in the US, if that’s the mission, is a heavy lift. The folks behind Silver, Versa, were convinced ATRs were the greatest thing since sliced bread, and would be readily embraced. Seriously, that was their thesis. Rich people who think they know better…

    But you would think JSX could give more compelling examples than Telluride and Truckee as to reasons why people will beat a path to JSX’s door.

  9. Dan Avatar
    Dan

    I remember the AA ATR Caribbean flights in the 1980s. Fine plane. Thing about props is, you feel a bit more like you’re flying in an airplane, rather than the quieter jet buses (at least up front). I’m fine with them for shorter hops.

  10. Angry Bob Crandall Avatar
    Angry Bob Crandall

    I flew JSX a few times out of the Austin Executive Airport. To be able to park and walk to the plane, no TSA and FA’s who were always cheerful made the trip much less stressful.

    CF, how does JSX compare to Aero?

    1. Brett Avatar

      Angry Bob – Same basic idea. Aero just has fewer seats onboard and it’s a more premium experience.

  11. SandyCreek Avatar
    SandyCreek

    Only tangentially related, but as 50-seaters like the E145 and CRJ2 approach the end of their serviceable lifespans with AA and UA, are props considered a replacement? For places like Florence SC (2x CLT E145) and Johnstown PA (1x IAD/ORD CRJ2), there isn’t really an option to upgauge.

    1. Brett Avatar

      Sandy – Certainly ATR hopes they will be considered. In most cases, however, the airlines seem content with just upgauging. We’ll see how they continue to serve these markets as those airplanes head toward the desert.

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