Comments on: Virgin America’s Long Ground Delay Was Handled Well, Despite What You May Read

By: Airplane Geeks - Episode 90 - From the Flight Deck with Doug | Airplane Geeks Podcast

Tue, 01 Jun 2010 23:48:55 +0000

[...] Virgin America’s Long Ground Delay Was Handled Well, Despite What You May Read [...]

By: Loyalty Dogs Blog» Blog Archive » Outflanking Destructive Bloggers

Loyalty Dogs Blog» Blog Archive » Outflanking Destructive Bloggers — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:29:59 +0000

[...] to launch a counter attack. In fact I heard of the events not from the news media, but from Cranky Flier’s Brett Snyder who wrote a blunt rebuttal to any criticism that may have been suggested about the [...]

By: Jimmy

Jimmy — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:47:28 +0000

IF THESE IDOITS WOULD “HIRE” LIFE / INDUSTRY STRONG F/A EXPERIENCE INSTEAD OF SOME “20 SOMETHINGS” WITH NO WORK ETHIC , LIFE EXPERIENCE,
OR “MATURITY” PERHAPS THIS INCIDENT WOULD HAVE BEEN “HANDLED” MUCH BETTER…OH WELL, VA – YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED “BLOND”, “YOUNG” &
“DUMB”…CONGRATULATIONS TO MEGAN FLANNAGAN & THE PEOPLE DEPARTMENT,
AND THE GREAT SELECTION PROCESS FOR YOUR INFLIGHT TEAM MEMBERS!!!!!!!!

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:04:31 +0000

…but don’t FAA ATC operating procedures give diverted flights priority handling, or at least not subject them to any penalties non-diverted flights might be subjected to at that time. I believe FAA calls it their “diversion recovery” program.
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Such procedures for diversion recovery does exist, but as you can see from this ATCSCC advisory for March 13th, that note in the last sentence confirms a tenet of the procedure, namely that if there’s a groundstop or ground delay program in effect for the impacted airport, a flight is still going to get an EDCT (expect departure clearance time, or “wheels-up” time). So, if an ABC-JFK flight diverts to XYZ, the diversion will still get an EDCT for the eventual XYZ-JFK flight, but be given priority over and scheduled flights XYZ-JFK.
———————————————————————–

ATCSCC ADVZY 064 DCC 03/13/2010
EWR/JFK/LGA/ZNY DIVERSION RECOVERY
MESSAGE:
THE ATCSCC HAS ACTIVATED THE DIVERSION RECOVERY TOOL
FOR EWR/JFK/LGA. CUSTOMERS SHOULD ENSURE THAT DVRSN IS INCLUDED
IN FLIGHT PLAN REMARKS OF DIVERTED AIRCRAFT. NOTE THAT IF THERE IS A GROUND DELAY PROGRAM OR GROUND STOP IN EFFECT FOR THE DESTINATION AIRPORT DIVERTED FLIGHTS ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY EXEMPT AND WILL STILL RECEIVE AN EDCT.

By: russ

russ — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:23:52 +0000

Newburgh is not the middle of nowhere. It’s only about an hour and a half drive to midtown Manhattan or across the river from a Metro North commuter rail station that takes you to Grand Central in an hour and a half. These people on the flight had wi-fi and could have looked up other options to get back like the 20 people who left the flight.

It always pays to know your options.

By: CF

CF — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:42:45 +0000

Great questions, Jay. I can’t speak for all airlines, but in general, those airlines that have a larger presence have better diversion plans. Virgin America only flies to Boston, JFK, and Dulles in the northeast, so when they divert, they end up in airports where they don’t fly. At that point, you may have a plan but you really can’t have a foolproof plan for every single airport in the US. But someone else may fly to a lot of those airports so it makes things go more smoothly.

The reality is that when you go to an airport where you don’t fly, things get dicey. That’s what happened with the ExpressJet flight in Rochester as well.

As for the Qantas flight, you’re right that there are no locals and they go through customs in LA. My guess is that they probably canceled the flight and sent passenger an alternate way, but I don’t know the details. Why did the Virgin America flight get more attention? Seems clear to me. They had the CEO of a social networking flight onboard! He was taking pictures and posting videos, so it was easy for the news media to pick up on this one. I think Maarten is right with what he said in the comments above.

By: f9ohio

f9ohio — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 23:35:23 +0000

and I just can’t resist, middle of nowhere? come on Justin! you are at an airport ha that’s hardly the middle of nowhere it might actually be described as somewhere. It’s so middle of nowhere that DL,US,UA, and CO all had flights going out the next day that could have connected to JFK. It’s so remote that the airport it self doesn’t have vending machines and water fountains. I guess I just use the word terrified more sparingly.

By: f9ohio

f9ohio — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 22:40:23 +0000

Bottom line, these passangers not only got there, but they made the trip for free and they got an additional voucher in the process. Last time I checked, you can’t drive from LAX to JFK in 16 hours, and I’m sure as shit if you did you wouldn’t wind up gaining money by the time you arrived there. Very few understand the sheer beauty and convinence of air travel anymore. Maybe Virgin’s bedside manner could have used some polishing but they actually did quite well in getting passangers close and then went above and beyond with transportation, refunds, vouchers and personal notes. Maybe Justin doesn’t understand that most airlines will code weather delays on anything reasonable close to avoid responsibility. You could still be in LAX trying stand-by for a flight as i’m typing this, or possible dropped of in Ithaca or worse as you watch your plane fly away and really be “left on you own.” As far as the “terrified” thing goes, sure I can see that, for the kids on the aircraft. It’s not the middle of bogata with a pair of boxer briefs and no passport, get a grip.

By: JayB

JayB — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 21:22:23 +0000

Cranky, Perhaps you could comment from your experiences as to whether there are some airlines that are better than others in handling situations requiring diversions. That is, they have a superior, well-designed diversion contingency plan and seem to be able to carry out the plans so much better than other carriers. Not that they can simply avoid diversions, but that when its necessesary, the really have their acts together and the passengers know it and come to expect it.

Of course, every carrier operates with safety as top priority for everything, like weather…well, we thought, but then came Air Florida and Colgan. Whatever!

In this particular situation, surely there were many other cases of airlines having to divert. How is it only one flight, here Virgin 404, made the news. Were the others so much better in handling the situation and thus there was no need to make a “federal case” out of the diversions?

Just checking Flightaware during that time, as an example, I saw Qantas 107, running its 744 tag-end LAX-JFK portion of its SYD-LAX route about the same time as Virgin 404. 107 made it to the New Jersey air space, circled around, then diverted down to Washington-Dulles, a place QF doesn’t serve. I’m sure QF doesn’t carry any local traffic on this route. I presume all custom formalities were handled at LAX. It appears that the 744 spent roughly 24 hours at IAD and then went on to JFK for the start of next day’s flight 108. Don’t how the PAX were treated at IAD or how they may have gotten to JFK. Anyone know of this case or any others to compare with the handling of Virgin 404?

One other matter relating to pilots worrying about “losing their ATC slots” should PAX not be kept on the plane, or whatever. Not that it alleviates all the problems, but don’t FAA ATC operating procedures give diverted flights priority handling, or at least not subject them to any penalties non-diverted flights might be subjected to at that time. I believe FAA calls it their “diversion recovery” program.

By: sjc user

sjc user — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:11:23 +0000

If I had the option to get off, I would have taken a cab to Beacon and then Metro North down to GCT. You would have been in Midtown Manhattan by 9 PM. That’s better than being on the plane and getting to JFK at 2 AM.