Comments on: Kate Hanni and I Talk About Delays, We Disagree (Part One)

By: Donald

Donald — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:45:27 +0000

I will comment later on the interview, but I saw this on Aviation Week’s blog “Strange But True Aviation News”. “I tried to get on the flight, but a hockey game broke out!” Its about passengers refusing to board an Air Canada flight during the gold medal hockey game of the Olympics. Here is the link

By: Burton Jay Rubin

Burton Jay Rubin — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:46:15 +0000

Very sad to have to point out that this is not about which cognoscente has the best insight into airline operations. It’s about providing human beings with basic, humane treatment. It’s about not confining people against their will for extended periods of time without food, water, ventilation, access to sanitary facilities and the opportunity to leave. That is what Ms. Hanni’s work has focused on and why she is owed the gratitude of the traveling public for her success. Admittedly, some people are more sensitive than others to being stranded aboard aircraft. Some of these less sensitive folks also lack empathy for those who find these prolonged on-board strandings to be intolerable. The Government, at Ms. Hanni’s urging, has now, finally acted to protect the public from these prolonged, involuntary confinements without the necessities of life. Anyone who has experienced an on-board stranding and misses the experience is free to replicate it on the ground, without involving the rest of us.

By: malbarda

malbarda — Sat, 13 Mar 2010 02:33:31 +0000

Cranky – I think the 3 hour thing is an appropriate “fine” that will (hopefully) influence airline practice. I like the European Passenger Bill Of Rights (http://ec.europa.eu/transport/passengers/air/air_en.htm). It has already lead to better treatment… and a raft of complaints procedures from airlines trying to fight this bill of rights, and passengers fighting airlines who are “ignoring” these rights (Ryanair being most frequently attacked).

I think that the 3 hour rule may not address the issue (of slot controls) but it may help in addressing the practice.

BTW – the European rules also talk about “force majeure”: if there is a blizzard, fog, or other serious weather issue, the airline can not be held responsible. Very fair me thinks.

The rules have been in place since 2005, but “real” enforcement has only happened in the last 2 years. Fares have NOT gone up.

By: David Z

David Z — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:24:11 +0000

Besides, isn’t cancelling and (maybe) refunding your money more convenient and practical than taking a flight that isn’t likely to push through (or worse delayed for God-knows-how-long) especially because of weather? Sure you’d want to “force” the airlines to fly you there, but what if none of them really can?

By: CF

CF — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:42:37 +0000

Maarten – I think I’m a bit confused. You’re suggesting slot controls, and that’s not what Kate is advocating for. She’s been pushing the 3 hour delay rule, and that doesn’t really help here.

I’m afraid that your desire for lower fares and fewer flights do not really mesh. Let’s look at a place like San Francisco. When the fog rolls in, capacity drops by half. So should we only schedule half the flights that are there now on the off chance that the weather will be there every day? If so, then you’ll see fares skyrocket. There are a lot more moving parts.

By: Greg

Greg — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:28:57 +0000

Maarten- I would say it can’t be fairly graded as Kate has no clue what she is talking about.

In the case of the delays. What do you think should be done? Should a government agency be forced to spend their money appropriately so that the system can handle traffic that is dictated by the market? Or should an industry slow its growth because a government agency can’t manage the airspace/airport system appropriately?

By: Maarten

Maarten — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:19:38 +0000

To be honest, I think it is 1 – 0 for Kate. Sorry, Cranky. I have been flying domestically and internationally for over 20 years now (and I am Platinum on AA, Diamond on DL and Lifetime Platinum Elite on Flying Blue). I have lived on three continents and in 5 different countries. No where have I seen the degree of delays that I witness/suffer in the US. Especially on the NY – ATL corridor.

Yes, the air traffic control system is terribly out of date. But also, the amount of volume that, is trying to crank through La Guardia is simply not realistic, especially during rush hour. A little bit of weather, and the whole thing falls apart because the traffic volume gets dialed down by ATC (which is absolutely the right thing to do under those circumstances) which means significant delays and cancelllations. The ONLY and truly ONLY way is to reduce traffic volume. La Guardia was simply never built for the volume it is trying to manage.

On the topic of fares and rates, I work for a Blue Chip Fortune 500, and in case people missed it, there has been a bit of a recession… Our company already requires us to fly coach for domestics under 6 hours. And we have negotiated significant deals with AA and DL through our friends at procurement. We are actively encouraged to fly cheap by booking early and so on. I would fly at different hours if the price difference were significant, and I find that I often do because it often is significant (e.g. $ 550 at rush hour vs $ 250 at off-peak). Sometimes its cheaper to fly the night before, and stay in a hotel, then to risk a day trip with travel at peak times with substantial delays as a realistic prospect.

By: CF

CF — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:50:39 +0000

In theory I love the virtual queue, but the problem is that airplanes generally aren’t ready to go until they’re in line and taxiing. A lot of things can break or there can be boarding issues, etc that mean people might miss their spots. There has to be a way to make this work better for sure, but I’ll leave that to the experts.

By: CF

CF — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:47:09 +0000

The auctions died once but they may come back one day. That’s not really the issue though. They already have slot restrictions at the airports, but the auctions simply would have made some of them available to anyone who wanted to bid. It still would have been the same number of flights.

By: CF

CF — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:45:17 +0000

Exactly right. This is very complex and it requires a complex set of solutions. From what I’ve seen, Kate seems to think everything here is simple, and that’s certainly not the case.