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	<title>Comments on: JetBlue and Lufthansa Finally Announce a Codeshare</title>
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	<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/</link>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Barnard</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78784</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Barnard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 02:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78784</guid>
		<description>Hmm, I think change-of-guage and/or plane under a same flight number should be stopped, and probably outlawed, as it gives a bad impression, and doesn&#039;t really seem to make sense.  Its a connection in disguise...

That being said codeshares are a useful way for airlines to extend their brand and reach, i think there has just been a bit too much willy nilly code sharing in some cases..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, I think change-of-guage and/or plane under a same flight number should be stopped, and probably outlawed, as it gives a bad impression, and doesn&#8217;t really seem to make sense.  Its a connection in disguise&#8230;</p>
<p>That being said codeshares are a useful way for airlines to extend their brand and reach, i think there has just been a bit too much willy nilly code sharing in some cases..</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78780</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78780</guid>
		<description>I believe the &quot;display of information&quot; rules regarding CRSs are still around, at 14 CFR 255.4. though not as thorough as they once were.

&quot;Disclosure&quot; rules for code-share are at 14 CFR 257, and change-of-guage services, 14 CFR 258.

The DOT dockets for making changes to these rules are really classics, stuff only a true airline regulatory-types could appreciate.  I loved reading the latest one regarding code-share disclosure (OST-2004-19083).  Eventually, after a year of back and forth, DOT went along with UA&#039;s request to get the rule for some types of advertising changed to read simply: &quot;Some services are provided by other airlines.&quot;  UA argued for a change, citing all this terrible asterisking and footnoting it had to do.  [They sure do know how to do that, don&#039;t they.]  Interestingly, JetBlue argued against UA.  I think the latest effort, with LH, would have them now agreeing with UA.

Regardless, I still would argue the benefits of allowing use of code-share and change-of-guage is confusing, if not downright deceptive regarding marketing of services.  Get rid of it!  Just an opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the &#8220;display of information&#8221; rules regarding CRSs are still around, at 14 CFR 255.4. though not as thorough as they once were.</p>
<p>&#8220;Disclosure&#8221; rules for code-share are at 14 CFR 257, and change-of-guage services, 14 CFR 258.</p>
<p>The DOT dockets for making changes to these rules are really classics, stuff only a true airline regulatory-types could appreciate.  I loved reading the latest one regarding code-share disclosure (OST-2004-19083).  Eventually, after a year of back and forth, DOT went along with UA&#8217;s request to get the rule for some types of advertising changed to read simply: &#8220;Some services are provided by other airlines.&#8221;  UA argued for a change, citing all this terrible asterisking and footnoting it had to do.  [They sure do know how to do that, don't they.]  Interestingly, JetBlue argued against UA.  I think the latest effort, with LH, would have them now agreeing with UA.</p>
<p>Regardless, I still would argue the benefits of allowing use of code-share and change-of-guage is confusing, if not downright deceptive regarding marketing of services.  Get rid of it!  Just an opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78760</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78760</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-78755&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;JK&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
But, isn’t CRS display bias supposed to be illegal? How do airlines get away with this?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This isn&#039;t bias, really.  It&#039;s just showing &quot;online&quot; connections above interline connections without singling out individual airlines.  But that doesn&#039;t matter.  I believe the bias rules were lifted recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a href="#comment-78755" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">JK</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
But, isn’t CRS display bias supposed to be illegal? How do airlines get away with this?
</p></blockquote>
<p>This isn&#8217;t bias, really.  It&#8217;s just showing &#8220;online&#8221; connections above interline connections without singling out individual airlines.  But that doesn&#8217;t matter.  I believe the bias rules were lifted recently.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78755</link>
		<dc:creator>JK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78755</guid>
		<description>Of course you&#039;re right, Cranky, reservation display.  Pure, out-and-out deceptive practice! 

But, isn&#039;t CRS display bias supposed to be illegal?  How do airlines get away with this?

ATC doesn&#039;t call these code-share flights anything other than the underlying airline and flight number.  And for me, suppose I tell my Mom I&#039;m flying in UA 8833, IAD to FRA.  Actually, it&#039;s LH 417, but OAG and other quick info aren&#039;t always so clear as to whom the underlying carriers and flight numbers are.  And then, tragedy!  LH 417 crashes, or it&#039;s hijacked.  Mom doesn&#039;t worry.  Her son&#039;s on UA 8833.  Oh?

In this day and age, how do the airlines get away with this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course you&#8217;re right, Cranky, reservation display.  Pure, out-and-out deceptive practice! </p>
<p>But, isn&#8217;t CRS display bias supposed to be illegal?  How do airlines get away with this?</p>
<p>ATC doesn&#8217;t call these code-share flights anything other than the underlying airline and flight number.  And for me, suppose I tell my Mom I&#8217;m flying in UA 8833, IAD to FRA.  Actually, it&#8217;s LH 417, but OAG and other quick info aren&#8217;t always so clear as to whom the underlying carriers and flight numbers are.  And then, tragedy!  LH 417 crashes, or it&#8217;s hijacked.  Mom doesn&#8217;t worry.  Her son&#8217;s on UA 8833.  Oh?</p>
<p>In this day and age, how do the airlines get away with this?</p>
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		<title>By: Albert</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78753</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78753</guid>
		<description>Add ability to earn LH miles and status points on B6 flights and this&#039;ll get even sweeter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add ability to earn LH miles and status points on B6 flights and this&#8217;ll get even sweeter.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78752</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78752</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-78737&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
It’s all about the reservation display. Flights under the same code will generally show up first, and that’s huge. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I read in a book somewhere that code sharing in the U.S. started as a consequence of deregulation – all of a sudden travel agents were getting multiple screens for each itinerary so the order of presentation became very important. Around 1984 a ruling was issued with the purpose of making the order more fair to everyone, and one aspect of the ruling was that connections on the same carrier got priority. Within a short period (2 years?) almost all regional carriers ended up masquerading as mainline carriers, because otherwise their flights would never show up high enough.

That same ruling is also responsible for displaying &quot;direct&quot; flights (same flight number) with the same priority as non-stop flights, which I find a bit deceptive, especially when there&#039;s a &quot;scheduled aircraft change&quot;.

Unfortunately I don&#039;t remember where I read this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a href="#comment-78737" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">CF</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
It’s all about the reservation display. Flights under the same code will generally show up first, and that’s huge.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I read in a book somewhere that code sharing in the U.S. started as a consequence of deregulation – all of a sudden travel agents were getting multiple screens for each itinerary so the order of presentation became very important. Around 1984 a ruling was issued with the purpose of making the order more fair to everyone, and one aspect of the ruling was that connections on the same carrier got priority. Within a short period (2 years?) almost all regional carriers ended up masquerading as mainline carriers, because otherwise their flights would never show up high enough.</p>
<p>That same ruling is also responsible for displaying &#8220;direct&#8221; flights (same flight number) with the same priority as non-stop flights, which I find a bit deceptive, especially when there&#8217;s a &#8220;scheduled aircraft change&#8221;.</p>
<p>Unfortunately I don&#8217;t remember where I read this.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Barnard</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78748</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Barnard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 04:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78748</guid>
		<description>Hmm, I wonder if they&#039;re going to have any ground transportation between Terminals 1 and 5?  Given the icky NY weather I sure hope they do.

Anyone know if T5 has any provisions for ground transportation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, I wonder if they&#8217;re going to have any ground transportation between Terminals 1 and 5?  Given the icky NY weather I sure hope they do.</p>
<p>Anyone know if T5 has any provisions for ground transportation?</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78746</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 04:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78746</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-78745&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Alex C&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I can’t remember, did the JetBlue investment pre-date Continental’s announcement that they were going to enter Star Alliance?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yep, by about 6 months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a href="#comment-78745" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">Alex C</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I can’t remember, did the JetBlue investment pre-date Continental’s announcement that they were going to enter Star Alliance?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yep, by about 6 months.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex C</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78745</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 04:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78745</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t remember, did the JetBlue investment pre-date Continental&#039;s announcement that they were going to enter Star Alliance?

Something to point out though about Lufthansa and JFK though is that Lufthansa as a parent company has A LOT of flights there (they already own Swiss and have approval to complete their takeover of Austrian).  So on the whole it seems like their interest in JFK at the moment would be almost comparable to IAD--it&#039;s just that they don&#039;t have much feed.

And if you look at Lufthansa&#039;s broader actions, they seem to be governed not so much by discontent with their American partners as simply an intent to expand their current reach.  Having more feed into JFK helps them use their existing flights to add traffic to their network beyond their hubs to the rest of Europe, to Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t remember, did the JetBlue investment pre-date Continental&#8217;s announcement that they were going to enter Star Alliance?</p>
<p>Something to point out though about Lufthansa and JFK though is that Lufthansa as a parent company has A LOT of flights there (they already own Swiss and have approval to complete their takeover of Austrian).  So on the whole it seems like their interest in JFK at the moment would be almost comparable to IAD&#8211;it&#8217;s just that they don&#8217;t have much feed.</p>
<p>And if you look at Lufthansa&#8217;s broader actions, they seem to be governed not so much by discontent with their American partners as simply an intent to expand their current reach.  Having more feed into JFK helps them use their existing flights to add traffic to their network beyond their hubs to the rest of Europe, to Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia.</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/09/08/jetblue-and-lufthansa-finally-announce-a-codeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-78743</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3529#comment-78743</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-78742&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Stephen&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Hey Cranky you just got props on the flightbblogger website…you are one of the “Top Aviation Tweeters” and a “must-follow” according to him. Under his Sept 8 post re: Wichita
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Thanks, Stephen.  He was actually linking to Simpliflying&#039;s post which named both of us as top tweeters along with some others.  For those who want to see the list, go here:
http://simpliflying.com/2009/high-flying-tweets-11-of-the-best-airline-or-aviation-bloggers-journalists-to-follow-on-twitter/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a href="#comment-78742" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">Stephen</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Hey Cranky you just got props on the flightbblogger website…you are one of the “Top Aviation Tweeters” and a “must-follow” according to him. Under his Sept 8 post re: Wichita
</p></blockquote>
<p>Thanks, Stephen.  He was actually linking to Simpliflying&#8217;s post which named both of us as top tweeters along with some others.  For those who want to see the list, go here:<br />
<a href="http://simpliflying.com/2009/high-flying-tweets-11-of-the-best-airline-or-aviation-bloggers-journalists-to-follow-on-twitter/" rel="nofollow">http://simpliflying.com/2009/high-flying-tweets-11-of-the-best-airline-or-aviation-bloggers-journalists-to-follow-on-twitter/</a></p>
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