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	<title>Comments on: El Al&#8217;s New Low Economy Class Isn&#8217;t Revolutionary</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/</link>
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		<title>By: Wandering Justin.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Reader Question: What Hotel Services Could You Live Without?</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-78338</link>
		<dc:creator>Wandering Justin.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Reader Question: What Hotel Services Could You Live Without?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-78338</guid>
		<description>[...] about the airline El Al (which seriously sounds like it should serve flights to the planet Kypton) creating a super-low economy section by charging for services normally offered for free. This &#8220;unbundling&#8221;, as it&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about the airline El Al (which seriously sounds like it should serve flights to the planet Kypton) creating a super-low economy section by charging for services normally offered for free. This &#8220;unbundling&#8221;, as it&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-77822</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-77822</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-77699&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ron&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Better yet, have the passengers bid against each other. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Holy cats that&#039;s brilliant. A little Machiavellian, but brilliant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a href="#comment-77699" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">Ron</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Better yet, have the passengers bid against each other.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Holy cats that&#8217;s brilliant. A little Machiavellian, but brilliant.</p>
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		<title>By: Nomadic Matt</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-77792</link>
		<dc:creator>Nomadic Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-77792</guid>
		<description>People value cheap too much. People complain about crappy airline service but thats because they fly these crappy seats most of the time. I&#039;d rather pay more for some frills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People value cheap too much. People complain about crappy airline service but thats because they fly these crappy seats most of the time. I&#8217;d rather pay more for some frills.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-77699</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-77699</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-77677&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Show me a seat map with dollar signs on each seat so I can pick the seat I want while looking at the map.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Better yet, have the passengers bid against each other. Each passenger sets a maximum amount they are willing to pay for each seat. Somebody is sitting in your favorite spot? Raise your bid and it&#039;s yours. Show all the information in real time, and you&#039;ll see the bids ticking. Your $25 seat got picked up by someone who paid $30, and now you&#039;re stuck in your second choice, $15 seat? We&#039;ll refund the difference with a drink coupon, or credit towards a future flight.

The same sort of bidding can work on boarding priority for Southwest-style free seating. In a matter of weeks, everyone will know the true market price for a B-25 boarding pass from Phoenix to Denver on a Thursday morning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a href="#comment-77677" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">CF</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Show me a seat map with dollar signs on each seat so I can pick the seat I want while looking at the map.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Better yet, have the passengers bid against each other. Each passenger sets a maximum amount they are willing to pay for each seat. Somebody is sitting in your favorite spot? Raise your bid and it&#8217;s yours. Show all the information in real time, and you&#8217;ll see the bids ticking. Your $25 seat got picked up by someone who paid $30, and now you&#8217;re stuck in your second choice, $15 seat? We&#8217;ll refund the difference with a drink coupon, or credit towards a future flight.</p>
<p>The same sort of bidding can work on boarding priority for Southwest-style free seating. In a matter of weeks, everyone will know the true market price for a B-25 boarding pass from Phoenix to Denver on a Thursday morning.</p>
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		<title>By: jonathan reed</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-77696</link>
		<dc:creator>jonathan reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-77696</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget United. Pay extra for economy plus for more leg room. Pay extra for early boarding so your to the limit carryon will find space in the overhead bin. Frankly, as a former United elite I like that I can still buy some of these elite perks now that I have lost my status with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget United. Pay extra for economy plus for more leg room. Pay extra for early boarding so your to the limit carryon will find space in the overhead bin. Frankly, as a former United elite I like that I can still buy some of these elite perks now that I have lost my status with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-77693</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-77693</guid>
		<description>As CF said, Frontier does this to an extent: Three pricing levels, each $20 apart. The cheapest gets nothing, middle gets two free checked bags, free TV, and the ability to choose seats ahead of time, and top tier gets a free drink, ability to choose the best seats (front of the cabin, exit rows), and FF mile bonuses, I think.

To me, choosing my seat ahead of time is non-negotiable (one of the reasons why I absolutely detest Southwest), so I always choose the middle pricing tier on Frontier. To the person who asked how they keep everyone separate, it&#039;s not complicated: The flight attendants have a printed manifest with who/what seat is what, and they service each person accordingly. It&#039;s never seemed like that big of a deal (e.g. I get my TV activated promptly once I&#039;m in the air, etc.) I wish more airlines did this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As CF said, Frontier does this to an extent: Three pricing levels, each $20 apart. The cheapest gets nothing, middle gets two free checked bags, free TV, and the ability to choose seats ahead of time, and top tier gets a free drink, ability to choose the best seats (front of the cabin, exit rows), and FF mile bonuses, I think.</p>
<p>To me, choosing my seat ahead of time is non-negotiable (one of the reasons why I absolutely detest Southwest), so I always choose the middle pricing tier on Frontier. To the person who asked how they keep everyone separate, it&#8217;s not complicated: The flight attendants have a printed manifest with who/what seat is what, and they service each person accordingly. It&#8217;s never seemed like that big of a deal (e.g. I get my TV activated promptly once I&#8217;m in the air, etc.) I wish more airlines did this.</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-77677</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-77677</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-77646&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David SFeastbay&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;How do they know who’s who and should get what services they paid (or didn’t pay for)? Will their be a separate in the rear cabin or seats a different color.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
They could do it by different cabin divisions or they could handle it other ways.  Things like baggage limits and the like can reside in the computer.  If you get a free meal, they could give you a voucher to print out when you check in that you give to the flight attendant.  Or they could just have the flight attendant have a list.

&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-77657&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Byron&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Is this sort of what southwest does with their business select product? Don’t those passengers get a free drink?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yeah, but Southwest&#039;s implementation is pretty lame.  You need to offer me a lot more than a drink and priority boarding to get me to pay that much more for the most part.

&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-77658&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Back in the ’60s, Continental had First (F), Coach (Y) and Economy (K)- if you bought Economy K you were not offered a meal or a headset for audio.. Seating for K was the back rows of the main cabin. United also had “red” “White” and “blue” carpet service; I don’t remember the product differentiation between white and blue.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Well there you go - Air Canada isn&#039;t an innovator - they&#039;re just cool and retro!

&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-77660&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Frank Vaughan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I’ve often wondered why the airlines don’t price based on the seat location. For example:
– charge $20 less for assigned center row seating – and the pax gets to move (for free) to the aisle or window if the flight is not full and the doors are closed.
– charge a $25 premium for seating in the first 5 rows of coach, or the 3 rows closest to the exits
– sell early boarding (spelled: overhead bin space!) for $10.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
As has been noted, they do.  At least, some of them do.  But it&#039;s still not done very well.  Show me a seat map with dollar signs on each seat so I can pick the seat I want while looking at the map.  Overlay it with SeatGuru-style data and then I can really see the benefit of paying more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a href="#comment-77646" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">David SFeastbay</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>How do they know who’s who and should get what services they paid (or didn’t pay for)? Will their be a separate in the rear cabin or seats a different color.
</p></blockquote>
<p>They could do it by different cabin divisions or they could handle it other ways.  Things like baggage limits and the like can reside in the computer.  If you get a free meal, they could give you a voucher to print out when you check in that you give to the flight attendant.  Or they could just have the flight attendant have a list.</p>
<p><b><a href="#comment-77657" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">Byron</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Is this sort of what southwest does with their business select product? Don’t those passengers get a free drink?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, but Southwest&#8217;s implementation is pretty lame.  You need to offer me a lot more than a drink and priority boarding to get me to pay that much more for the most part.</p>
<p><b><a href="#comment-77658" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">PF</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Back in the ’60s, Continental had First (F), Coach (Y) and Economy (K)- if you bought Economy K you were not offered a meal or a headset for audio.. Seating for K was the back rows of the main cabin. United also had “red” “White” and “blue” carpet service; I don’t remember the product differentiation between white and blue.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Well there you go &#8211; Air Canada isn&#8217;t an innovator &#8211; they&#8217;re just cool and retro!</p>
<p><b><a href="#comment-77660" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">Frank Vaughan</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I’ve often wondered why the airlines don’t price based on the seat location. For example:<br />
– charge $20 less for assigned center row seating – and the pax gets to move (for free) to the aisle or window if the flight is not full and the doors are closed.<br />
– charge a $25 premium for seating in the first 5 rows of coach, or the 3 rows closest to the exits<br />
– sell early boarding (spelled: overhead bin space!) for $10.
</p></blockquote>
<p>As has been noted, they do.  At least, some of them do.  But it&#8217;s still not done very well.  Show me a seat map with dollar signs on each seat so I can pick the seat I want while looking at the map.  Overlay it with SeatGuru-style data and then I can really see the benefit of paying more.</p>
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		<title>By: jjjbbb</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-77671</link>
		<dc:creator>jjjbbb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-77671</guid>
		<description>On AC, the Latitude fare customer gets dibs on the best coach seats (ie the first 3-5 rows), and their meal (which is still just a sandwich, chips and a beer) is delivered by the FA who has the locations of latitude customers on her/his manifest. This fare has the most flexibility, and is quite expensive. Tango Plus is a middle fare, which offers advanced seat selection (all but the seats reserved for latitude), full status FF miles and some flexibility, and Tango is a seat which usually is whatever your preference is (aisle/window) and fewer, non-status, points. AC has taken this to the front of the plane as well, with less flexible Executive fares - which are often less than Latitude.

I fly Tango Plus on the Corporate pass for work, and usually a Tango fare for my own travel. Its a good system, and I always feel a bit strange when I am sitting in a seat I paid $99 for, and the guy beside me is eating a sandwich on a fare closer to $800...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On AC, the Latitude fare customer gets dibs on the best coach seats (ie the first 3-5 rows), and their meal (which is still just a sandwich, chips and a beer) is delivered by the FA who has the locations of latitude customers on her/his manifest. This fare has the most flexibility, and is quite expensive. Tango Plus is a middle fare, which offers advanced seat selection (all but the seats reserved for latitude), full status FF miles and some flexibility, and Tango is a seat which usually is whatever your preference is (aisle/window) and fewer, non-status, points. AC has taken this to the front of the plane as well, with less flexible Executive fares &#8211; which are often less than Latitude.</p>
<p>I fly Tango Plus on the Corporate pass for work, and usually a Tango fare for my own travel. Its a good system, and I always feel a bit strange when I am sitting in a seat I paid $99 for, and the guy beside me is eating a sandwich on a fare closer to $800&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David M</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-77668</link>
		<dc:creator>David M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-77668</guid>
		<description>Correction to my last comment:

Allegiant does this. It’s also one of the perks for booking Choice Seats on US Airways or Business Select on Southwest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction to my last comment:</p>
<p>Allegiant does this. It’s also one of the perks for booking Choice Seats on US Airways or Business Select on Southwest.</p>
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		<title>By: David M</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/21/el-als-new-low-economy-class-isnt-revolutionary/comment-page-1/#comment-77667</link>
		<dc:creator>David M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3215#comment-77667</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-77660&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Frank Vaughan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;– charge a $25 premium for seating in the first 5 rows of coach, or the 3 rows closest to the exits&lt;/blockquote&gt;

US Airways does something like this with their Choice Seats program.

&lt;blockquote&gt;– sell early boarding (spelled: overhead bin space!) for $10.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Allegiant does this.  It&#039;s also one of the perks for booking Choice Plus on US Airways or Business Select on Southwest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a href="#comment-77660" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">Frank Vaughan</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>– charge a $25 premium for seating in the first 5 rows of coach, or the 3 rows closest to the exits</p></blockquote>
<p>US Airways does something like this with their Choice Seats program.</p>
<blockquote><p>– sell early boarding (spelled: overhead bin space!) for $10.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Allegiant does this.  It&#8217;s also one of the perks for booking Choice Plus on US Airways or Business Select on Southwest.</p>
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