Comments on: “Save Frontier” Campaigns Gear Up, But They Won’t Work http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/ Thu, 24 May 2012 20:13:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Tim http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77246 Tim Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:11:24 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77246 sure will miss seeing animals on my way out of midway. i cant imagine anymore WN jets sitting at anymore gates at midway. First ATA, now Frontier? All they need is Air Tran, and they'll own Midway. With the Northwest/Delta merger, The only airlines out of there are Porter(one flight), Air Tran, and Delta. sure will miss seeing animals on my way out of midway. i cant imagine anymore WN jets sitting at anymore gates at midway. First ATA, now Frontier? All they need is Air Tran, and they’ll own Midway. With the Northwest/Delta merger, The only airlines out of there are Porter(one flight), Air Tran, and Delta.

]]> By: RobG7aChattTN http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77190 RobG7aChattTN Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:40:08 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77190 Apparently the final bid was for $170 million. Apparently the final bid was for $170 million.

]]> By: CF http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77182 CF Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:09:08 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77182 There is a lot of interesting news today on the Southwest bid. I wasn't planning on writing about this tomorrow, but I think there's too much to ignore. So stay tuned for that. There is a lot of interesting news today on the Southwest bid. I wasn’t planning on writing about this tomorrow, but I think there’s too much to ignore. So stay tuned for that.

]]> By: RobG7aChattTN http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77180 RobG7aChattTN Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:58:08 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77180 From what I've gathered (and I do have a bit of a horse in the race, being a SWA employee) the Airbus fleet is only leased and all the leases will expire within two years. So, the bidding price does not inclulde the value of anything but leased airplanes, but the advantage is they can be replaced without having to sell an aircraft at a loss. One estimate put the value of the gates in DEN alone at $300 million...so purchasing Frontier should be a no-brainer. Add to that all the office and hanger space in DEN (which would be needed for a DEN base for SWA which was going to happen eventually) plus more gates for LGA, adding cities like ATL, Anchorage, Charlotte, 5 destinatioins in Mexico and one in Costa Rica (the Mexico thing replaces the codeshare with Volaris that the pilots hated)...well, it seems too easy. The biggest problems will be Lynx and employee integration. Maybe Republic would take Lynx for cheap and save SWA the headache. From what I've gathered by running Frontier independantly and then shrinking them as aircraft leases expire would allow SWA to put Frontier employees on the bottom of the seniority list. The advantage is you don't upset your tried-and-true workgroup and if any Frontier employees are too angry they will find jobs elsewhere. If they stay on with SWA they might be angry for a few years, but come out ahead in the long run. The employees from the Morris buyout were angry for a year or two, but are happy to be where they are now. After all these wage concessions, being put on the bottom of the list at SWA should be decent pay with the potential for a pretty good (and stable) wage in the future. I know a lot of senior folks at other airlines would gladly make the switch for a guarenteed job at SWA. So far SWA has had no lay-offs and no wage concessions, ever! From what I’ve gathered (and I do have a bit of a horse in the race, being a SWA employee) the Airbus fleet is only leased and all the leases will expire within two years. So, the bidding price does not inclulde the value of anything but leased airplanes, but the advantage is they can be replaced without having to sell an aircraft at a loss. One estimate put the value of the gates in DEN alone at $300 million…so purchasing Frontier should be a no-brainer. Add to that all the office and hanger space in DEN (which would be needed for a DEN base for SWA which was going to happen eventually) plus more gates for LGA, adding cities like ATL, Anchorage, Charlotte, 5 destinatioins in Mexico and one in Costa Rica (the Mexico thing replaces the codeshare with Volaris that the pilots hated)…well, it seems too easy. The biggest problems will be Lynx and employee integration. Maybe Republic would take Lynx for cheap and save SWA the headache. From what I’ve gathered by running Frontier independantly and then shrinking them as aircraft leases expire would allow SWA to put Frontier employees on the bottom of the seniority list. The advantage is you don’t upset your tried-and-true workgroup and if any Frontier employees are too angry they will find jobs elsewhere. If they stay on with SWA they might be angry for a few years, but come out ahead in the long run. The employees from the Morris buyout were angry for a year or two, but are happy to be where they are now. After all these wage concessions, being put on the bottom of the list at SWA should be decent pay with the potential for a pretty good (and stable) wage in the future. I know a lot of senior folks at other airlines would gladly make the switch for a guarenteed job at SWA. So far SWA has had no lay-offs and no wage concessions, ever!

]]> By: CF http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77179 CF Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:57:05 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77179 <b><a href="#comment-77169" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">David SFeastbay</a></b> wrote: <blockquote>Anyone know what the creditors want? </blockquote> The creditors want as much money as they can get. They won't get anywhere near making $1 for each $1, but they will take whomever gives them the best offer. <b><a href="#comment-77175" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">oldiesfan6479</a></b> wrote: <blockquote>Cranky, When are you going to rip CO and XE for their debacle at RST on Friday night? </blockquote> I'm trying to get more information from ExpressJet first. I could regurgitate all the details that are being floated elsewhere, but I don't have much else to add. Yeah, it really, really sucked. Hopefully ExpressJet will give me more details to shed some light on what exactly happened. David SFeastbay wrote:

Anyone know what the creditors want?

The creditors want as much money as they can get. They won’t get anywhere near making $1 for each $1, but they will take whomever gives them the best offer.

oldiesfan6479 wrote:

Cranky,
When are you going to rip CO and XE for their debacle at RST on Friday night?

I’m trying to get more information from ExpressJet first. I could regurgitate all the details that are being floated elsewhere, but I don’t have much else to add. Yeah, it really, really sucked. Hopefully ExpressJet will give me more details to shed some light on what exactly happened.

]]> By: Nicholas Barnard http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77177 Nicholas Barnard Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:03:30 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77177 I'd like to see a stronger competitor to Southwest, as they keep getting bigger and bigger, eventually they'll be the one that people are wanting price relief from. That being said I'm not quite sure a Frontier/Republic/Midwest combination would be that great. I’d like to see a stronger competitor to Southwest, as they keep getting bigger and bigger, eventually they’ll be the one that people are wanting price relief from.

That being said I’m not quite sure a Frontier/Republic/Midwest combination would be that great.

]]> By: oldiesfan6479 http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77175 oldiesfan6479 Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:18:09 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77175 Cranky, When are you going to rip CO and XE for their debacle at RST on Friday night? Hundreds of comments already on both Ben's McPaper blog and the HOU Chronicle. Cranky,

When are you going to rip CO and XE for their debacle at RST on Friday night?

Hundreds of comments already on both Ben’s McPaper blog and the HOU Chronicle.

]]> By: K http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77173 K Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:52:10 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77173 Creditors just want their cash for providing goods and services to Frontier Creditors just want their cash for providing goods and services to Frontier

]]> By: A http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77172 A Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:20:05 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77172 I can by all means understand the hometown pride in wanting a "local" airline. MSP is my home and through a lifetime of love/hate with NW it's still sad to see the red tails slowly vanish from the skies. Disregarding my opinion of that merger I have to agree with Cranky's take on the Frontier situation. They are in bankruptcy and the best (most profitable) option for the creditors should win. Personally, as a member of the flying public that has no "horse in this game" I'm inclined to think a WN take over would add additional benefits of more destinations/larger route network, in lieu of a Republic subsidiary remaining much the same as-is today. In today's economy I imagine Frontier employees would love the security of working for someone like WN, although that option will certinaly not include everyone. Then again, if Republic wins what are the options of Frontier saying profitable in the long term, especially if WN decides to get even more competitive at DEN? Slim to none IMO. I can by all means understand the hometown pride in wanting a “local” airline. MSP is my home and through a lifetime of love/hate with NW it’s still sad to see the red tails slowly vanish from the skies. Disregarding my opinion of that merger I have to agree with Cranky’s take on the Frontier situation. They are in bankruptcy and the best (most profitable) option for the creditors should win.

Personally, as a member of the flying public that has no “horse in this game” I’m inclined to think a WN take over would add additional benefits of more destinations/larger route network, in lieu of a Republic subsidiary remaining much the same as-is today.

In today’s economy I imagine Frontier employees would love the security of working for someone like WN, although that option will certinaly not include everyone. Then again, if Republic wins what are the options of Frontier saying profitable in the long term, especially if WN decides to get even more competitive at DEN? Slim to none IMO.

]]> By: David SFeastbay http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/10/save-frontier-campaigns-gear-up-but-they-wont-work/comment-page-1/#comment-77169 David SFeastbay Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:16:58 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/?p=3320#comment-77169 Anyone know what the creditors want? Anyone know what the creditors want?

]]>