<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Southwest Wants to Buy Frontier and Make it Disappear</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 19:13:26 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Allen</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-77144</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-77144</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-76796&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;flyROA&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;:

Actually, if Southwest wanted Republic to be weakened, they&#039;d want them doing the Frontier deal.  Republic would be too pre-occupied with getting frontier to work and sinking a lot of resources into that deal to be able to do much in places like Milwaukee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ <a href="#comment-76796" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">flyROA</a></b>:</p>
<p>Actually, if Southwest wanted Republic to be weakened, they&#8217;d want them doing the Frontier deal.  Republic would be too pre-occupied with getting frontier to work and sinking a lot of resources into that deal to be able to do much in places like Milwaukee.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-77112</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-77112</guid>
		<description>@Doug

I more so meant that the Lynx Q400 operation can be integrated to Southwest to serve the greater network as it does now for the mainline Frontier operation.

In any case, I do hope for the best for all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Doug</p>
<p>I more so meant that the Lynx Q400 operation can be integrated to Southwest to serve the greater network as it does now for the mainline Frontier operation.</p>
<p>In any case, I do hope for the best for all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-77105</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 06:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-77105</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ &lt;a href=&quot;#comment-76793&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Oliver&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;:
I work on the Q400 for frontier and we only have 11 of them and and more than 30 mechanics.  There is no place for mainline workers to come over to!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ <a href="#comment-76793" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">Oliver</a></b>:<br />
I work on the Q400 for frontier and we only have 11 of them and and more than 30 mechanics.  There is no place for mainline workers to come over to!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-76897</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-76897</guid>
		<description>Dirk - I really don&#039;t think this is Southwest reacting to Republic at all.  I think they&#039;re reacting to the fact that Frontier is going to survive one way or another, something they probably were betting against when they saw Frontier on the ropes.  I think most of us were betting that Frontier wouldn&#039;t find a way out of bankruptcy, but now that it&#039;s happened, Southwest sees a choice.  They can either keep competing against a new Frontier (regardless of the owner), or they can pay a very low $113 million to remove the competitor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dirk &#8211; I really don&#8217;t think this is Southwest reacting to Republic at all.  I think they&#8217;re reacting to the fact that Frontier is going to survive one way or another, something they probably were betting against when they saw Frontier on the ropes.  I think most of us were betting that Frontier wouldn&#8217;t find a way out of bankruptcy, but now that it&#8217;s happened, Southwest sees a choice.  They can either keep competing against a new Frontier (regardless of the owner), or they can pay a very low $113 million to remove the competitor.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dirk</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-76881</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-76881</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still a bit disappointed that you guys aren&#039;t picking up on the real story here, and that&#039;s Bedford.  What he&#039;s trying to do is big enough to raise eyebrows in DAL and have them throw down $113.6 million to stop him.  This is a major, MAJOR shift in our industry to have LCC&#039;s fending off Regionals with cash.

AA is outside this fight, other than they&#039;d be happy to see the thorn in their sides in Dallas throw down some cash.  

DL and FL see this story as bathroom reading and little else.  Because Frontier flies into ATL now means nothing.  Southwest isn&#039;t avoiding ATL because they can&#039;t find gates.  They&#039;re avoiding ATL because of the two healthy airlines already duking it out there.

UA can&#039;t do anything but pray they get the same kind of interest when they reenter bankruptcy in the next few months.  Will it be USAirways or Continental?  What happens to &quot;the other guy&quot; in Denver is really kinda far down on their radar, in the scheme of things.

Skywest is the hidden player in all of this.  They&#039;ll express deep interest in the Q400&#039;s from Lynx (which I don&#039;t care who you are, you can&#039;t believe Southwest is going to operate them).  But what Skywest now has a problem with is keeping up with the Bedfords.  Bedford is where the change in the industry is coming from.  Either good or bad, he represents the future of the regional-turned-ultra-LCC airline, and Skywest is going to have to respond.

If the FAA pushes through the ATP requirement for FO&#039;s, you&#039;re going to see cheaper 50-seaters than a 1990 2-door Honda Civic with 300,000 miles, sans muffler (right now you can still get the muffler).  For those of you who aren&#039;t aware of this proposal, it basically means regional pilots are going to be much harder to come by, therefore more expensive, therefore no longer economically viable for regional jets, therefore no longer money-making opportunities for the regionals.

The capacity purchase agreements are no longer valid business plans for the regionals.  Bedford has publicly acknowledged this, and the guys in St. George are smart enough to have picked up on it too.  So what do they do?

The next generation of LCC&#039;s is the story here.  So much of a story, that Southwest is willing to put up $113.6 million to stop it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still a bit disappointed that you guys aren&#8217;t picking up on the real story here, and that&#8217;s Bedford.  What he&#8217;s trying to do is big enough to raise eyebrows in DAL and have them throw down $113.6 million to stop him.  This is a major, MAJOR shift in our industry to have LCC&#8217;s fending off Regionals with cash.</p>
<p>AA is outside this fight, other than they&#8217;d be happy to see the thorn in their sides in Dallas throw down some cash.  </p>
<p>DL and FL see this story as bathroom reading and little else.  Because Frontier flies into ATL now means nothing.  Southwest isn&#8217;t avoiding ATL because they can&#8217;t find gates.  They&#8217;re avoiding ATL because of the two healthy airlines already duking it out there.</p>
<p>UA can&#8217;t do anything but pray they get the same kind of interest when they reenter bankruptcy in the next few months.  Will it be USAirways or Continental?  What happens to &#8220;the other guy&#8221; in Denver is really kinda far down on their radar, in the scheme of things.</p>
<p>Skywest is the hidden player in all of this.  They&#8217;ll express deep interest in the Q400&#8242;s from Lynx (which I don&#8217;t care who you are, you can&#8217;t believe Southwest is going to operate them).  But what Skywest now has a problem with is keeping up with the Bedfords.  Bedford is where the change in the industry is coming from.  Either good or bad, he represents the future of the regional-turned-ultra-LCC airline, and Skywest is going to have to respond.</p>
<p>If the FAA pushes through the ATP requirement for FO&#8217;s, you&#8217;re going to see cheaper 50-seaters than a 1990 2-door Honda Civic with 300,000 miles, sans muffler (right now you can still get the muffler).  For those of you who aren&#8217;t aware of this proposal, it basically means regional pilots are going to be much harder to come by, therefore more expensive, therefore no longer economically viable for regional jets, therefore no longer money-making opportunities for the regionals.</p>
<p>The capacity purchase agreements are no longer valid business plans for the regionals.  Bedford has publicly acknowledged this, and the guys in St. George are smart enough to have picked up on it too.  So what do they do?</p>
<p>The next generation of LCC&#8217;s is the story here.  So much of a story, that Southwest is willing to put up $113.6 million to stop it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-76850</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-76850</guid>
		<description>James - I imagine it&#039;s safe to say that the international flights will stay around through the winter unless they&#039;re horribly unprofitable.  Otherwise, they&#039;ve said that they would slowly but surely transition Frontier flying over to Southwest but everything would remain until then.  I don&#039;t see why that would change unless they find some awful flights in there that need to go.  (Lynx, however, might be a different story.)  Remember, Frontier actually has been turning a profit in bankruptcy, so if Southwest just continued to operate it, it&#039;s not going to be a detriment by any means.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James &#8211; I imagine it&#8217;s safe to say that the international flights will stay around through the winter unless they&#8217;re horribly unprofitable.  Otherwise, they&#8217;ve said that they would slowly but surely transition Frontier flying over to Southwest but everything would remain until then.  I don&#8217;t see why that would change unless they find some awful flights in there that need to go.  (Lynx, however, might be a different story.)  Remember, Frontier actually has been turning a profit in bankruptcy, so if Southwest just continued to operate it, it&#8217;s not going to be a detriment by any means.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-76849</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-76849</guid>
		<description>Actually you did answer this in Nicholas&#039;s response:  

/quote: The international experience is sort of a wildcard in my mind.

I think it&#039;s a big part of Frontier&#039;s picture - and it&#039;d be nice to know right now what&#039;s up :)   I can&#039;t see too many people booking their winter trips to Mexico with their status in limbo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually you did answer this in Nicholas&#8217;s response:  </p>
<p>/quote: The international experience is sort of a wildcard in my mind.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a big part of Frontier&#8217;s picture &#8211; and it&#8217;d be nice to know right now what&#8217;s up :)   I can&#8217;t see too many people booking their winter trips to Mexico with their status in limbo.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-76847</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-76847</guid>
		<description>I think Frontier has done a phenomenal job at marketing their product over the past eight years.  Everyone in Colorado knows them and loves the brand, even if their focus cities have died and people outside Colorado still write &quot;Is Frontier any good?&quot; on various travel boards. 

Many of the comments in this week&#039;s Denver Post articles bag on Southwest with the typical &quot;cattle call&quot; comments and dissing their older 737s,  but as stated in this article and others Southwest wouldn&#039;t have expanded so rapidly had folks been selecting airlines based on Frontier&#039;s &quot;hometown pride&quot; versus price and schedule.  (Which are my primary factors.)

I&#039;m not as concerned about &quot;hometown pride&quot; (Southwest has brought jobs here too,) as I am about losing the Mexico service.  This will definitely be affected one way or another. Currently Frontier offers non-stop service to the big Mexican vacation cities. During high season they offer at least two flights a day.  I like the selection, service, and price.  I love the fact I can fly to Cancun in the morning and be in the Yucatan jungle by late afternoon.  They even fly to Costa Rica.

United serves these routes too, however I&#039;m assuming this will result in less competition and less frequency.  American and Continental fly to Mexico through their respective Texas hubs, however non-stop flights are certainly preferred by me, even if the cost is a bit higher.   Mexicana and Aeromexico also connect, but seem to have oddball times connecting through MEX.

What are your thoughts on Mexico service -  Would Southwest find some way to incorporate it?  Or would it eventually fade away?  It would be sad to me to see those options dry up - and to me would be a big loss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Frontier has done a phenomenal job at marketing their product over the past eight years.  Everyone in Colorado knows them and loves the brand, even if their focus cities have died and people outside Colorado still write &#8220;Is Frontier any good?&#8221; on various travel boards. </p>
<p>Many of the comments in this week&#8217;s Denver Post articles bag on Southwest with the typical &#8220;cattle call&#8221; comments and dissing their older 737s,  but as stated in this article and others Southwest wouldn&#8217;t have expanded so rapidly had folks been selecting airlines based on Frontier&#8217;s &#8220;hometown pride&#8221; versus price and schedule.  (Which are my primary factors.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not as concerned about &#8220;hometown pride&#8221; (Southwest has brought jobs here too,) as I am about losing the Mexico service.  This will definitely be affected one way or another. Currently Frontier offers non-stop service to the big Mexican vacation cities. During high season they offer at least two flights a day.  I like the selection, service, and price.  I love the fact I can fly to Cancun in the morning and be in the Yucatan jungle by late afternoon.  They even fly to Costa Rica.</p>
<p>United serves these routes too, however I&#8217;m assuming this will result in less competition and less frequency.  American and Continental fly to Mexico through their respective Texas hubs, however non-stop flights are certainly preferred by me, even if the cost is a bit higher.   Mexicana and Aeromexico also connect, but seem to have oddball times connecting through MEX.</p>
<p>What are your thoughts on Mexico service &#8211;  Would Southwest find some way to incorporate it?  Or would it eventually fade away?  It would be sad to me to see those options dry up &#8211; and to me would be a big loss.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Future Gringo &#124; Denver and Travel Blog by James Van Dellen &#187; Southwest Wants Frontier &#8211; Adiós Mexico</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-76846</link>
		<dc:creator>Future Gringo &#124; Denver and Travel Blog by James Van Dellen &#187; Southwest Wants Frontier &#8211; Adiós Mexico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-76846</guid>
		<description>[...] analyses that I&#8217;ve read have been Cranky Flyer&#8217;s take, which always includes some excellent discussion. This article states that Denver is not a large [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] analyses that I&#8217;ve read have been Cranky Flyer&#8217;s take, which always includes some excellent discussion. This article states that Denver is not a large [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/31/southwest-wants-to-buy-frontier-and-make-it-disappear/comment-page-1/#comment-76842</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 16:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=3260#comment-76842</guid>
		<description>Jim - The problem with Dayton is that they already fly to Louisville, Indianapolis, and Columbus.  I can see them going into Cincinnati to better serve the city, but I don&#039;t think they need another alternate airport around there.

SmarteCart - I don&#039;t remember Herb saying that, but it seems strange.  If he really regretted it, there would have been nothing stopping him from going back in.  I really think Anchorage would be bad, like Ryan says.  For the most part, it&#039;s a highly seasonal market with the possible exception of Seattle.  But there&#039;s no reason to go into Seattle with Alaska in there.  For much of the year, I just don&#039;t think there&#039;s enough traffic up there to support more than what Alaska already offers.

I agree about the business model change, but it would seem to me that the most attractive change they could make is not serving some of the mainline cities but rather introducing the Q400 operation.  I think that could be a winner.

Ryan - They very well may be targeting United cities, but they were doing that with or without the Frontier acquisition.  I honestly think this move helps United by eliminating competition, but it really helps Southwest more.

Nicholas - The international experience is sort of a wildcard in my mind.  I think you&#039;re right that they&#039;ll definitely keep the flights going, at least during the transition.  Then they can evaluate how things are going and learn whether they want to bring that into the Southwest family or not.  It could be a smart way to do it, now that you mention it.

Everyone knows I love the Q400 idea, but I doubt we&#039;d see it called Southwest Frontier.  Southwest doesn&#039;t exactly like to honor its acquisitions very much.  You won&#039;t see Muse, Morris, or ATA mentioned anywhere except for the one Southwest airplane that&#039;s named after June Morris.  We might see an airplane named Larry the Lynx but I&#039;d be surprised to see more than that.

Oh, and about TrueBlue, I&#039;ve been working on deciphering it.  It&#039;s a very complicated program, and I&#039;ve had to break it down into two posts.  I&#039;ll have the first up on Monday.

Zack - Akron/Canton and Dayton might have been classic Southwest markets but they probably shouldn&#039;t be in the consideration set since they already serve the big airports in the area.  Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Columbus blanket the Akron/Canton area well, especially since AirTran already serves the local market there.  In Dayton, it&#039;s a little different since they don&#039;t serve Cincinnati, but Indy, Louisville, and Columbus serve that market pretty well if they won&#039;t serve the main Cincy airport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim &#8211; The problem with Dayton is that they already fly to Louisville, Indianapolis, and Columbus.  I can see them going into Cincinnati to better serve the city, but I don&#8217;t think they need another alternate airport around there.</p>
<p>SmarteCart &#8211; I don&#8217;t remember Herb saying that, but it seems strange.  If he really regretted it, there would have been nothing stopping him from going back in.  I really think Anchorage would be bad, like Ryan says.  For the most part, it&#8217;s a highly seasonal market with the possible exception of Seattle.  But there&#8217;s no reason to go into Seattle with Alaska in there.  For much of the year, I just don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s enough traffic up there to support more than what Alaska already offers.</p>
<p>I agree about the business model change, but it would seem to me that the most attractive change they could make is not serving some of the mainline cities but rather introducing the Q400 operation.  I think that could be a winner.</p>
<p>Ryan &#8211; They very well may be targeting United cities, but they were doing that with or without the Frontier acquisition.  I honestly think this move helps United by eliminating competition, but it really helps Southwest more.</p>
<p>Nicholas &#8211; The international experience is sort of a wildcard in my mind.  I think you&#8217;re right that they&#8217;ll definitely keep the flights going, at least during the transition.  Then they can evaluate how things are going and learn whether they want to bring that into the Southwest family or not.  It could be a smart way to do it, now that you mention it.</p>
<p>Everyone knows I love the Q400 idea, but I doubt we&#8217;d see it called Southwest Frontier.  Southwest doesn&#8217;t exactly like to honor its acquisitions very much.  You won&#8217;t see Muse, Morris, or ATA mentioned anywhere except for the one Southwest airplane that&#8217;s named after June Morris.  We might see an airplane named Larry the Lynx but I&#8217;d be surprised to see more than that.</p>
<p>Oh, and about TrueBlue, I&#8217;ve been working on deciphering it.  It&#8217;s a very complicated program, and I&#8217;ve had to break it down into two posts.  I&#8217;ll have the first up on Monday.</p>
<p>Zack &#8211; Akron/Canton and Dayton might have been classic Southwest markets but they probably shouldn&#8217;t be in the consideration set since they already serve the big airports in the area.  Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Columbus blanket the Akron/Canton area well, especially since AirTran already serves the local market there.  In Dayton, it&#8217;s a little different since they don&#8217;t serve Cincinnati, but Indy, Louisville, and Columbus serve that market pretty well if they won&#8217;t serve the main Cincy airport.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

