Comments on: London/Heathrow Third Runway Approved, Protests Abound

By: compare car hire

compare car hire — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:49:05 +0000

You know I had few connections in UK when I was traveling to Italy and it was Packed, and nerve wracking getting from one gate to another. I hope they fix this and somehow still save the Earth.

By: The Traveling Optimist

The Traveling Optimist — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:34:41 +0000

CSDF – Five possible reasons for change in engine pitch
1) Wind direction change which can make them seem louder.
2) Slow approach. Need to speed up a tad for spacing.
3) Below glide slope. Need to increase altitude a hair.
4) Vector change. Maintain speed while turning slightly.
5) Attitude adjustment. Raising the nose but keeping speed.

Those more expert than I may add other reasons to this list but those tend to be some of the more common causes.

By: csdf

csdf — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:19:10 +0000

@Simon. Above Battersea/Wandsworth, the planes do something with their engines which results in a load roar – probably straightening up for the final approach. If you’re outside you actually have to raise your voice to be heard. On some days, when the wind’s wrong for an approach from the East towards Heathrow, we have the fun of the City airport approach (from the South, veering East) instead. :/ Luckily those are mostly props, but still…

By: The Traveling Optimist

The Traveling Optimist — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:58:58 +0000

I knew you’d catch that, David! I was purposely leaving out all the commuter stations and sticking with the big guns cuz I couldn’t name them all! LOL

Flying in to London is always interesting. Do you get the Thames River approach or Windsor Castle but, again, as someone who lives under DFW, I understand it’s not always fun for the people on the ground.

By: David

David — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:44:47 +0000

Optimist – the UK Govt was seriously considering rationalising London’s train termini does to just 4 in the 1960s. Alas passenger traffic has grown far beyond the levels of 40 years ago. You’ve missed the following terminals in your list – Liverpool Street, Fenchurch Street, Blackfriars, London Bridge, Cannon Street and Marylebone, making a total of 13, yes thirteen, major train termini in central London !

By: Simon

Simon — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:26:01 +0000

@ Mike: the issue is that as well as giving permission for a third runway, they’ve given permission for a 40% (I think – certainly that order of magnitude) increase in movements. That is what people are complaining about. It also means that LHR will not get any better – it will go from operating at 99% capacity and unable to recover from weather, incident, etc., to still being in the 90%s of capacity and not great at reovering from issues.

@csdf: I’m also under the southern approach, about 7.5 miles from LHR and I have to say I’ve never been woken by a plane. Friends who come to visit notice it, but after 8 years of living under the flightpath I don’t even really notice them when walking around (although I’ll often look up in a geeky plane spottery way if I unconsciously notice a different engine noise). That said, I do have friends who live about 3 miles closer still, and there I do find the noise a lot more instrusive, and I am very glad they are not adopting mixed mode.

By: The Traveling Optimist

The Traveling Optimist — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:25:16 +0000

Thanks for the numbers, David. I did some math and added up the five London airports to around 140 Million. That’s a lot of movement.

Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, City. That’s a lot to sort out.

Euston, St. Pancras, King’s Cross, Victoria, Waterloo, Paddington and Charing Cross. Ditto.

Runway-3 at LHR won’t do much for BritRail but I’m all for any infrastructure improvement that will help the poor fool who’s never been to London before.

By: David

David — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:59:19 +0000

Optimist – In 2008, Stansted had 22.3 million pax passing through while Luton had 10.2 million. Until the movements cap at STN was recently lifted, STN was full for anything except the most undesirable slot timings. Even Luton with a mere 10 million ranks as the 5th busiest airport in the UK. LHR needs a 3rd runway just for itself – it’s already running daily at well over 95% of movements capacity. By 2019, when a 3rd runway opens at LHR it is extremely unlikely that all the traffic at Luton could be absorbed into the remaining London airports. London’s airports in 2007 handled about 50 million *more* pax than Paris’ airports – there really is that much air transport to/from London.

In Paris, both CDG and Orly are owned by AdP. In London, BAA is definitely selling Gatwick and may also sell STN. This would mean at least 4 out of the 5 London airports being owned by different companies – a fantastic way to ensure strong competition, improve standards at airports throughout the South East of the UK, and keep airport fees low.

By: CF

CF — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:45:56 +0000

Mike – The environmentalists don’t want any new capacity at all. They simply want air travel growth to stop.

By: The Traveling Optimist

The Traveling Optimist — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:26:00 +0000

The 3rd Runway makes the most sense, with apologies to CSDF for the noise over the middle of town.

An airport in the Thames Estuary is essentially an airport in the North Sea, one of the most temperamental bodies of water in Europe. The cost of land reclamation for an airport high enough to avoid regular flooding much less the service disruptions alone point right back to simply expanding LHR.

As far as the global community is concerned there is only one airport in Paris, CDG. Orly is largely for the locals and cheap European outfits. I love London and respect the space and noise constraints of the UK in general. That said it still amazes me why all this fuss over a city that doesn’t seem to need and yet defends the existence of five international airports.

Build the 3rd runway and close one of those under-used airports across town like Stansted or Luton.