Comments on: US Airways Pilots End ASAP Participation

By: J

Wed, 24 Dec 2008 19:59:09 +0000

I don’t believe that is true. All public accounts indicate that AMR, like all the other airlines at which the pilot unions chose to walk away from the program, was willing to continue it as written. Unsupported statements such as “AMR does play games” with no factual basis do nothing to enhance this discussion.

By: seventhree

seventhree — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 05:26:27 +0000

Under the old LOA no such personnel entry could be made. Going forward, however, it was one of the conditions that AMR stipulated would be necessary to extend the ASAP LOA.

AMR does play games. I don’t buy tickets on their airline because of their poor operational environment.

By: J

Wed, 24 Dec 2008 04:24:55 +0000

Your information regarding APA and American is incorrect. Just as is the case at USAir, no “negative” entry can be made in an American Pilot’s personel file without following the procedures for discipline/discharge. In other words, the filing of an ASAP report could not lead to the notation in the Pilot’s file that you suggest was the case, Indeed, why would American even want to make such a notation? Werer there to be an accident in which this same pilot was involved, a notation that the pilot was “reckless” and American having taking no remedial action would only lead to greater liability from civil suits.

Again, APA has chosen to politicize a very effective safety program, where no issues have ever existed. Maybe this satisfied those who saw “ghosts” in the program, but those same pilots likely were never filing ASAP reports in the first place.

By: seventhree

seventhree — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:47:41 +0000

I am a USAir pilot and from what little inside knowledge I posses this looks like a political decision.

The American APA disagreement is quite a bit deeper, however. AMR wanted the right to make an entry in a pilot’s personal file labeling that pilot as “reckless.” Though these files were internal documents, in the event of a crash AMR would have no doubt leaked the information in an attempt to shift liability from the carrier to a “reckless” pilot.

This was an obvious ploy on AMR’s part, as a pilot whom they felt was truly reckless would have been terminated. In fact, as reckless actions are specifically prohibited by Federal Aviation Regulations, no operator could legally field a pilot who had actually been found to be reckless.

The APA was right to junk the ASAP program at American.

By: yo

yo — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:17:36 +0000

Binding means Binding.

Agreements need to be kept by all.

By: CF

CF — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:38:21 +0000

Yo – To be fair, I’m told the process began under ALPA before USAPA came on property. I understand it’s still the same pilot group, but this isn’t entirely just USAPA. Of course, it’s unclear whether or not the outcome would have been the same under ALPA.

By: Yo

Yo — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:19:41 +0000

USAPA is a joke. A union created out of spite because a bunch of whining pilots who agreed to binding arbitration decided not to, because they didn’t like how the arbitration came out.

Unions kill companies

By: J

Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:41:05 +0000

The simple answer is that the Pilots want ASAP to be a complete “get out of jail free card.” They can point to not a single instance, at ANY airline, where management has used information shared in an ASAP report to discipline a Pilot. Indeed, the program itself says this is prohibited, and for this reason alone an arbitrator would not consider such information in any grievance challenging such discipline.

What the program does not prohibit is the use of information that management may have garnered from other than an ASAP report. If the Company already knew of the incident, the filing of the ASAP report does not protect the Pilot from the Company using that “non-sole source” information. Thus, the Pilots want the Company prohibited from using information it obtained outside the ASAP program to discipline a Pilot, provided the Pilot filed an ASAP report, hence the get out of jail free card. Even the FAA has refused this change as it applies to enforcement action.

It is a shame that the Pilot unions have chosen to politicize this very effective safety program.

By: CF

CF — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:30:58 +0000

Trent880 - The Delta pilots actually also ended their participation awhile ago, so it's not just these two. That being said, I definitely understand what you're saying. David - That's a good point. You would think the union-bashers would have jumped all over this, but I haven't seen much. There has been some good coverage from Flight Global, but the Wall Street Journal article was garbage.

By: David

David — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:12:07 +0000

CF – the story seems a real eyebrow raiser. Assuming that what you say gives a full picture of the issue, has the wider press not picked up on this ? Seems like a classic topic for a bit of union bashing tabloid journalism…