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	<title>Comments on: LAX Reveals Plans for Nice but Very Expensive Bradley West Terminal Expansion</title>
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	<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/</link>
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		<title>By: Canetoader</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-402772</link>
		<dc:creator>Canetoader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 06:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-402772</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m the other way around: I find international easier than domestic at LAX. Except for when the US Customs folks decide to roster-on four officers for the five flights that are landing within half an hour. That sucks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the other way around: I find international easier than domestic at LAX. Except for when the US Customs folks decide to roster-on four officers for the five flights that are landing within half an hour. That sucks!</p>
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		<title>By: Video Tour of the New LAX Bradley Terminal Concourse Under Construction - &#62;&#62; The Cranky Flier</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-343069</link>
		<dc:creator>Video Tour of the New LAX Bradley Terminal Concourse Under Construction - &#62;&#62; The Cranky Flier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-343069</guid>
		<description>[...] I wrote about this in 2008, it was expected to open with 14 gates beginning this month. The entire project was around $2 billion, which included a new taxiway, fire station, etc. The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I wrote about this in 2008, it was expected to open with 14 gates beginning this month. The entire project was around $2 billion, which included a new taxiway, fire station, etc. The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ndongo</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-305513</link>
		<dc:creator>ndongo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 19:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-305513</guid>
		<description>L.A. live in downtown los angeles single handely change the perception of downtown los angeles. meanning beauty and money have an impact in life.I do not see anything wrong in having both beauty and easy airport to move around. yes money will be an impact but this los angeles a world class city . if you had a choice to leave in beverly hills and watts what will you choose? if you can afford it.    I am sure some one will afford it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>L.A. live in downtown los angeles single handely change the perception of downtown los angeles. meanning beauty and money have an impact in life.I do not see anything wrong in having both beauty and easy airport to move around. yes money will be an impact but this los angeles a world class city . if you had a choice to leave in beverly hills and watts what will you choose? if you can afford it.    I am sure some one will afford it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-258695</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-258695</guid>
		<description>Wow, I really dont want to sit next to you on an airline....bitching the whole way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I really dont want to sit next to you on an airline&#8230;.bitching the whole way.</p>
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		<title>By: ndongo</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-226719</link>
		<dc:creator>ndongo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jul 2011 04:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-226719</guid>
		<description>I guess some one had to always say something. I hope people  understand how long it took before they even start building this new airport. the writter came up with an example of a new york 26 gates airport built by one of the airlines with 800 million. for god shake. Have you ever been to new york airport  call jfk. for all the beauty of that city some one for once had the audacity to mention new york airport jfk. that is the ugliest airport I have ever seen for a big city is it a mokery regarless of improvement they are trying to make at that airport it look horrible to see . I just stopped by there a week ago I was ashamed to see jfk as new york airport. truly. expenssive or not expensive, pretty or not, people are going to fly to lax to go to los angeles and california thru that airport. and I rather see a beatifull airport than to see a ugly one.it is not like because it is expenssive people will not fly lax.  lax has been criticised for too long it is about time to make a splash and I like the idia of this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess some one had to always say something. I hope people  understand how long it took before they even start building this new airport. the writter came up with an example of a new york 26 gates airport built by one of the airlines with 800 million. for god shake. Have you ever been to new york airport  call jfk. for all the beauty of that city some one for once had the audacity to mention new york airport jfk. that is the ugliest airport I have ever seen for a big city is it a mokery regarless of improvement they are trying to make at that airport it look horrible to see . I just stopped by there a week ago I was ashamed to see jfk as new york airport. truly. expenssive or not expensive, pretty or not, people are going to fly to lax to go to los angeles and california thru that airport. and I rather see a beatifull airport than to see a ugly one.it is not like because it is expenssive people will not fly lax.  lax has been criticised for too long it is about time to make a splash and I like the idia of this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-102661</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 05:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-102661</guid>
		<description>Is the pricetag steep? Yes.

Will it *significantly* improve the image of LAX?  Yes.

At the time, CPK @ HKG set a world record for construction costs (US $20 bil in 1998).  Yet, visit it today, and the airport is phenomenal.  Everything -- transportation, check in, security, baggage, etc comes together smoothly to make for an excellent end-user experience.  Though I&#039;ve flown through HKG too many times to count, I still love going through it.  The same can be said about YVR, which added 9 more gates among others to the tune of 1.4 billion.

Yes, it is possible to design an airport with no architectural value.  There&#039;s nothing wrong with that, and it will significantly cut the price.  It will also leave the traveler with an experience similar to that of JetBlue&#039;s terminal.

I went through JetBlue&#039;s terminal in April 09.  It wasn&#039;t anything memorable.  Yes, it was clean and modern and all, but it wasn&#039;t anything memorable, just another concrete-glass building.  I would venture a guess and say that within 10 years, the architectural design will begin showing its age.  On the other hand, UA @ ORD, DEN, and HKG have all aged well, and will continue to, dare I say it, delight the traveler who passes through.

While I lack experience in airport construction, I would also wonder what the actual cost breakdown is, and how much is directly related to actual glass and steel of the building itself.  Runways can be surprisingly expensive.  Construction costs are also high if one has to &quot;build over&quot; an actively used building.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the pricetag steep? Yes.</p>
<p>Will it *significantly* improve the image of LAX?  Yes.</p>
<p>At the time, CPK @ HKG set a world record for construction costs (US $20 bil in 1998).  Yet, visit it today, and the airport is phenomenal.  Everything &#8212; transportation, check in, security, baggage, etc comes together smoothly to make for an excellent end-user experience.  Though I&#8217;ve flown through HKG too many times to count, I still love going through it.  The same can be said about YVR, which added 9 more gates among others to the tune of 1.4 billion.</p>
<p>Yes, it is possible to design an airport with no architectural value.  There&#8217;s nothing wrong with that, and it will significantly cut the price.  It will also leave the traveler with an experience similar to that of JetBlue&#8217;s terminal.</p>
<p>I went through JetBlue&#8217;s terminal in April 09.  It wasn&#8217;t anything memorable.  Yes, it was clean and modern and all, but it wasn&#8217;t anything memorable, just another concrete-glass building.  I would venture a guess and say that within 10 years, the architectural design will begin showing its age.  On the other hand, UA @ ORD, DEN, and HKG have all aged well, and will continue to, dare I say it, delight the traveler who passes through.</p>
<p>While I lack experience in airport construction, I would also wonder what the actual cost breakdown is, and how much is directly related to actual glass and steel of the building itself.  Runways can be surprisingly expensive.  Construction costs are also high if one has to &#8220;build over&#8221; an actively used building.</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-81917</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 05:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-81917</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-81819&quot; title=&quot;Go to comment of this author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;InsureItGirl&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt; wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Umm, you’re an idiot.  The total value of the construction project is $1.5 billion.  My company is insuring it. Where are you getting these ridiculous numbers from?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Name-calling is always a great way to engage in a discussion.  For some reason, I&#039;m bothering to respond to you.  There is no way this thing will be done for $1.5 billion.  

First, let&#039;s make sure we&#039;re talking about the same thing.  There are two phases to this project.  The first is for the new gates in the existing terminal.  The second is the remote concourse with new ticketing area.  The combined projects are expected to be $6 to 7 billion (but I bet it goes even higher).

In Phase I, which may be what your company is insuring, the costs are expected to be around $1.5 billion, but I&#039;ll be surprised if it comes in that low.  They have already awarded $1.26 billion in the form of two contracts, and I&#039;m sure there will be more.

If you&#039;d like to keep having a discussion about this, I&#039;d suggest that you stop being an ass and act like an adult.  I won&#039;t respond to name-calling from you again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b><a href="#comment-81819" title="Go to comment of this author" rel="nofollow">InsureItGirl</a></b> wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>Umm, you’re an idiot.  The total value of the construction project is $1.5 billion.  My company is insuring it. Where are you getting these ridiculous numbers from?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Name-calling is always a great way to engage in a discussion.  For some reason, I&#8217;m bothering to respond to you.  There is no way this thing will be done for $1.5 billion.  </p>
<p>First, let&#8217;s make sure we&#8217;re talking about the same thing.  There are two phases to this project.  The first is for the new gates in the existing terminal.  The second is the remote concourse with new ticketing area.  The combined projects are expected to be $6 to 7 billion (but I bet it goes even higher).</p>
<p>In Phase I, which may be what your company is insuring, the costs are expected to be around $1.5 billion, but I&#8217;ll be surprised if it comes in that low.  They have already awarded $1.26 billion in the form of two contracts, and I&#8217;m sure there will be more.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;d like to keep having a discussion about this, I&#8217;d suggest that you stop being an ass and act like an adult.  I won&#8217;t respond to name-calling from you again.</p>
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		<title>By: InsureItGirl</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-81819</link>
		<dc:creator>InsureItGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-81819</guid>
		<description>Umm, you&#039;re an idiot.  The total value of the construction project is $1.5 billion.  My company is insuring it. Where are you getting these ridiculous numbers from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm, you&#8217;re an idiot.  The total value of the construction project is $1.5 billion.  My company is insuring it. Where are you getting these ridiculous numbers from?</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-70806</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 17:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-70806</guid>
		<description>mbaughman - All very good points, for sure.  I suppose I should stop using &quot;functional&quot; as my word or at least clarify what I mean, because in my opinion, the temporary midfield concourse (C/D) at Dulles is hardly functional!  Yes, you can get on a plane there, but transportation to the terminal is a mess, there isn&#039;t enough seating, there aren&#039;t enough shops to pass the time, and it&#039;s literally falling apart.  If that&#039;s considered functional, then you could probably consider the existing Bradley Terminal concourses functional, and I definitely don&#039;t think that&#039;s the case.  I don&#039;t argue that we need to do something about Bradley.

But I&#039;d be curious to get your thoughts on JetBlue&#039;s new terminal.  It appears to be quite functional, and while somewhat spartan, it&#039;s attractive and will probably last long into the future.  For JetBlue to be able to knock down most of the old TWA terminal and rebuild a brand new 26 gate terminal from scratch cost a mere $800 million.  Meanwhile at LAX, they&#039;re talking about simply knocking down the existing 11 gate concourse and building a 14 gate one to replace it in the first phase.  While this will include some changes to the ticketing/baggage areas to fit with the new concourse, that part isn&#039;t a new structure at all.  The only other component here is moving an existing taxiway further west to accommodate for gates on both sides of the new concourse.  Yet this much smaller project is going to cost $2 billion.  

Airports should always be trying to keep costs low, and in this case, I think they&#039;ve let the design have costs that are running away for the sake of prettiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mbaughman &#8211; All very good points, for sure.  I suppose I should stop using &#8220;functional&#8221; as my word or at least clarify what I mean, because in my opinion, the temporary midfield concourse (C/D) at Dulles is hardly functional!  Yes, you can get on a plane there, but transportation to the terminal is a mess, there isn&#8217;t enough seating, there aren&#8217;t enough shops to pass the time, and it&#8217;s literally falling apart.  If that&#8217;s considered functional, then you could probably consider the existing Bradley Terminal concourses functional, and I definitely don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s the case.  I don&#8217;t argue that we need to do something about Bradley.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;d be curious to get your thoughts on JetBlue&#8217;s new terminal.  It appears to be quite functional, and while somewhat spartan, it&#8217;s attractive and will probably last long into the future.  For JetBlue to be able to knock down most of the old TWA terminal and rebuild a brand new 26 gate terminal from scratch cost a mere $800 million.  Meanwhile at LAX, they&#8217;re talking about simply knocking down the existing 11 gate concourse and building a 14 gate one to replace it in the first phase.  While this will include some changes to the ticketing/baggage areas to fit with the new concourse, that part isn&#8217;t a new structure at all.  The only other component here is moving an existing taxiway further west to accommodate for gates on both sides of the new concourse.  Yet this much smaller project is going to cost $2 billion.  </p>
<p>Airports should always be trying to keep costs low, and in this case, I think they&#8217;ve let the design have costs that are running away for the sake of prettiness.</p>
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		<title>By: mbaughman</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2008/11/24/lax-reveals-plans-for-nice-but-very-expensive-bradley-west-terminal-expansion/comment-page-1/#comment-70799</link>
		<dc:creator>mbaughman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/?p=1613#comment-70799</guid>
		<description>CF, these are big projects that take may years and will last for a very long time and one only has to pass through the midfield additions to Eero Saarinen&#039;s Dulles Airport to understand what the &quot;we can&#039;t afford it now&quot; thinking brings. We can never afford these. We never have this kind of money laying around. At Dulles, Terminals C/D were a &quot;temporary&quot; stopgap which have long outlived their initial purpose and are a horror to use. They are, however, functional and by the standard you are setting, this should be the model. Fortunately the Washington Airport Authority had better sense with Terminal B. It will cost us so much more to rebuild C/D to what they should have been in the first place. 

Perhaps the big mistake was Fentress describing their design in such shallow terms People are appropriately suspicious of architects designing for themselves and not the rest of us. It&#039;s hard to imagine Norman Foster (Beijing, Hong Kong) or Renzo Piano (Osaka) describing their work in such trivial terms. Those are great airports in every way because they did not fall into the trap of thinking there is a difference between beauty and function. But that doesn&#039;t make the LAX expansion bad or  make it wrong to bear in mind that these are large public buildings that we will have to live with long after the small-minded bureaucrats have retired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CF, these are big projects that take may years and will last for a very long time and one only has to pass through the midfield additions to Eero Saarinen&#8217;s Dulles Airport to understand what the &#8220;we can&#8217;t afford it now&#8221; thinking brings. We can never afford these. We never have this kind of money laying around. At Dulles, Terminals C/D were a &#8220;temporary&#8221; stopgap which have long outlived their initial purpose and are a horror to use. They are, however, functional and by the standard you are setting, this should be the model. Fortunately the Washington Airport Authority had better sense with Terminal B. It will cost us so much more to rebuild C/D to what they should have been in the first place. </p>
<p>Perhaps the big mistake was Fentress describing their design in such shallow terms People are appropriately suspicious of architects designing for themselves and not the rest of us. It&#8217;s hard to imagine Norman Foster (Beijing, Hong Kong) or Renzo Piano (Osaka) describing their work in such trivial terms. Those are great airports in every way because they did not fall into the trap of thinking there is a difference between beauty and function. But that doesn&#8217;t make the LAX expansion bad or  make it wrong to bear in mind that these are large public buildings that we will have to live with long after the small-minded bureaucrats have retired.</p>
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