Comments on: Tony France on the Decline of First Class

By: The Cranky Flier » Tony France: Qantas Got it Right, Almost – The Airbus A380

Fri, 03 Oct 2008 14:55:13 +0000

[...] France, the Traveling Optimist, is back with another post, and this is a long one. Last time Tony generated a lot of discussion, so let’s hope this does the same. Friends of mine were planning on getting married in New [...]

By: Randy

Randy — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:51:28 +0000

Just flew Business class from Kiev to Paris on Air France. It was literally a coach seat with a coach pitch, but with an empty middle seat, whoop-dee-do. Had always heard the complaints about a “flat” bed that tilted slightly forward and how one slides forward when sleeping in it, damned if I didn’t slide forward on AF’s 777 business class seat from CDG to IAD. Granted I don’t get to fly F as much as QRC, but I have been on UA, SQ, NZ, and LH in F over the last year. Only SQ’s food was impressive, although I do laugh thinking that of the 4 flight attendents, two were women, and two were guys. When does their advertising campaign include the Singapore dude? They did have Kobe steak which was the best steak in the air or on the ground that I have had. While the seat and entertainment are the best ever in the history of airlines, the food and quality of service has declined. It has been a trade off. The old days had a barco-lounger and lousy entertainment, but the food and service was incredible. Carved roast beef, salads tossed at your seat, tubs of ice cream in order to serve sundaes, eggs cooked to order before landing. Service was also delivered with a smile by personable flight attendants. Now with all of the the travails in the industry, the employees at US carriers are shell shocked and have an attitude to match. The overseas carriers have employees that deliver a top notch product, but in a business-like and less personal manner. Only Qantas and Air New Zealand have had employees that looked like they truly had fun on the job. First class as it has evolved over the years has both improved and devolved. One’s opinion on whether it is the golden age of first class depends on what is important to you. For the seat and entertainment, it is nirvana right now. For personable service and an incredible meal, that has slipped from days of old. It’s not nostalgia for the past, just a trade-off in my mind. I haven’t been on BA, Cathay, or Emirates, but I have a JFK-Dubai A380 first class seat booked on November so I will see if they combine the holy quartet, seat, entertainment, service, and food.

By: QRC

QRC — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:10:11 +0000

To the Traveling Optimist: Thank you much for your response, appreciate the well-written and thoughtful response.

By: Bobber

Bobber — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:52:54 +0000

Just had my first (and probably only) experience of long-haul F class travel (LHR-SFO-LHR) on United, booked with miles in F as C and Y were unavailable. The real difference is lying flat to sleep, the food is not noticeably different to C class (on UA), and the service is the same as C. Unless money was absolutely no object (i.e. I was spending someone else’s!), I can’t see why you would pay for F (and even C, most of the time). Very pleasant flights, I have to say, but not worth the $4-6k price if you have to pay.

By: Eric

Eric — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:57:46 +0000

My issue is with domestic F. It’s now a lot like coach in the 90s.

By: A

Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:54:06 +0000

While I agree that the US Airlines have much to learn about service from their foreign competition I do think for the vast majority of the flying public the golden days of airtravel are behind us. Private charters are taking over airtravel for the corporate boardrooms, and only a small group of business elite get to travel in the front cabin on the foreign flag carriers. Most of the business travelers aren’t flying international and are stuck with the US based carriers. Additionally, most of us aren’t ever paying for first. We collect our premium status and try to get free upgrades to first, or burn some miles for that upgrade. Either way, the airline isn’t getting paid more $$$ for the ticket, thus I don’t blame them for the declining service. I do have some fond memories of the first class service in the 1980′s when my father was a half-million mile man on Continental. And more recently I have flown some European flag carriers across the Atlantic. The experience is comparable to the Continental experience from 20 years ago with more electronic toys. But for most of my flying criss-crossing the USA, I don’t need a futuristic lie flat bed with electronic gizmos all around. I want a nice seat with good service. That’s gone from what I’ve seen.

By: QRC

QRC — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 00:43:01 +0000

Not to scream here…but THESE ARE THE GOOD OLE DAYS FOR F CLASS! RIGHT NOW! Dare I say better than ever? Forget the US…everywhere else in the world is rolling out amazing F products!

David SF east bay hits it right, again Eric not to beat the drum here but F products are extremely good nowadays! Domestic “F” is not “F” US airlines just insist on coding it that way – like an AA MD-80 whose F class would hardly cut it for premium economy in Asia – but it’s not the case for “true F”, as I think most people who fly a lot would really only categorize intl F class.

UA and AA have done a decent job though on their F services like JFK-SFO, or JFK-LAX…and that’s to be applauded. The United PS F class is quite comfortable, and AA’s premium trans con services isn’t as good as UA but the service is quite excellent and it is much higher than US standards people are used to.

I know it’s fun to look back on the “good ole days,” but honestly except for the US in the rest of the world there are a wide variety of excellent products, premium food, extremely-premium wines (wine bottles that retail for $100-$250, and sell in restaurants in some cases over $500), full beds (or even suites), great entertainment systems, and service that bows hand over fist to make you happy. Have you seen the premium terminal in Doha? IT IS SPECTACULAR…I am writing this a day after hanging out in the F lounge in LHR Terminal 5, and I didn’t think it was possible to top CX F lounge in HKG, but BA has done it in T5. The grandeur and size of Beijing’s new T3 itself should quiet anyone who complains about the “good ole days” of flying being in the past, and despite a few quirks it’s a great and convenient place to catch a flight.

Sigh…

By: David SF east bay

David SF east bay — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:32:20 +0000

I’m confused why anyone would fly a US airline overseas anyway if given the choice. We see how they can’t do domestic, so why would we think they can to a great international service.

With the U.S. carriers codesharing with airlines from around the world, may sure if you or someone else is booking your international flights to book the codeshare flight if your company makes you fly the “U.S.” airline if they have a discount contract. In may cases the real U.S. carriers flight departs within a few minutes of the LH/NH/BA/QF/AF/JL flight and you will get a much better product in the air.

By: Eric

Eric — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:42:33 +0000

When I was younger, I remember peeking across the 1980s curtain from coach into first. I remember seeing the 5-Star meals being enjoyed by the first class passengers, as we ate our airline chicken in coach. They sat in those big leather seats, while we had the worn cloth.

The first time I upgraded to first class, I had such a romantic experience plotted out in my head… and then I got on board. Yes, the domestic F seat is leather, but it’s nothing special. My leather recliner at home is just as, if not more, comfortable. I was served a warmed over soup and an average cobb salad. It was not the romance I dreamed of. Although I have experimented with some great red South American wines from the front of the cabin, I have never been awe-struck by ridding up front.

Yes, we would all live to see F-class live up to the glamour of yester-year but, I, like most, have never actually paid for the privladge of First Class. Untill people are willing to work over more, you will get less and less.

By: Charlotte

Charlotte — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:06:50 +0000

As aflight attendant for a major carrier for 17 years, we still had caviar and a 3 cabin service when I first began. Eventually, there would only be 2 or 3 ppl. to pay to sit in first class, thus the modern “Business Class” and “Coach Class”. We still set our trays with linen and each piece of silver. But now, customers want to eat whenever they finish with what they are doing, or awake later, or only want portions of the menu. This is fine with us, but please remember, it does take away from the seamless service we once offered when everything was choreographed to “flow”. Now we have passengers who scoff at new food offerings, thing we have a hibachi to “grill”their steak more, and ask for port with their salad. The culture has changed from the passenger side as well. We have been forced by customer demand in Business Class to be short order servers….riflilng through each cart to get what each passenger wants when they want it. (The carts are still set up to present the “seamless” service). Health regulations require food to arrived “pre-cooked” and we just heat it up. If a passenger decides to sleep and we have already cooked their meal, that they requested, then they are left with an overcooked mess, and we are blamed for serving a poor meal.
We also deal with the toe-nail cutters during flights, passengers strolling around barefoot, and the lavs leaving us wondering what happened to basic civility and basic hygiene.
One last thing….I love the carriers that have the “one on one” attention, but please remember that many of these airlines are subsidized, so having 8 flight attendants in Business Class is a standard. One a plane where I once had anywhere from 12-14 flight attendants, I know have minimum staffing of 7 and am lucky to get my extra 2 load staffing….yes, all a sign of the times! My passengers still receive graciousness and conversation from me, but now I taking them somewhere with a little culinary diversion, not serving a restaurant meal. You don’t walk out of your favorite 5 star restaurant in another city.
Thanks to all of you who are still loyal passengers.