Comments on: SAS Dumps the Q400, Should They Kiss and Make Up? http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/ Thu, 24 May 2012 05:28:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: The Cranky Flier » SAS and Bombardier Settle Over the Q400 http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/comment-page-1/#comment-31307 The Cranky Flier » SAS and Bombardier Settle Over the Q400 Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:42:28 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/#comment-31307 [...] the end of October, I asked whether Bombardier and SAS should kiss and make up over their differences. Yeah, sure there were three Q400 landing gear issues in two months, but [...] [...] the end of October, I asked whether Bombardier and SAS should kiss and make up over their differences. Yeah, sure there were three Q400 landing gear issues in two months, but [...]

]]> By: Charles Nobil http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/comment-page-1/#comment-11666 Charles Nobil Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:48:45 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/#comment-11666 Who is going to buy a set of planes that have a record of malfunctioning and giving passengers the flying jitters? I certainly hope it is not our local airline, Porter. Who is going to buy a set of planes that have a record of malfunctioning and giving passengers the flying jitters? I certainly hope it is not our local airline, Porter.

]]> By: NotConvinced http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/comment-page-1/#comment-8286 NotConvinced Sat, 03 Nov 2007 23:48:30 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/#comment-8286 This SAS landing gear business is interesting, and the fact that these gear up landings have only occured there does spark more possibilities that it might be an issue more airline specific. Wheter thats SAS's mx, a lack of Bombardier guidance, or someother extenuating circumstance that's yet to be seen. I am not positive but they are not the first airline to cease Q400 ops. While Island Air was more of a financial impact so far as I know they never started ops with the type, and an airline in China also got rid of a few. I do suspect that these occurances were more of the last nail in the coffin variety though with SAS. The problem with the Q400, or forte depending on your point of view, is that the direct economics are SO good. On the flip side of it, the reliability is not so hot, and there are a host of issues to prove it. Ask anyone who operates it on a day to day basis and not blinded by those economics and they will tell you. Passengers don't mind it but many who rely on it regularly are not thrilled by the ability to stay on time. This SAS landing gear business is interesting, and the fact that these gear up landings have only occured there does spark more possibilities that it might be an issue more airline specific. Wheter thats SAS’s mx, a lack of Bombardier guidance, or someother extenuating circumstance that’s yet to be seen. I am not positive but they are not the first airline to cease Q400 ops. While Island Air was more of a financial impact so far as I know they never started ops with the type, and an airline in China also got rid of a few.

I do suspect that these occurances were more of the last nail in the coffin variety though with SAS. The problem with the Q400, or forte depending on your point of view, is that the direct economics are SO good. On the flip side of it, the reliability is not so hot, and there are a host of issues to prove it. Ask anyone who operates it on a day to day basis and not blinded by those economics and they will tell you. Passengers don’t mind it but many who rely on it regularly are not thrilled by the ability to stay on time.

]]> By: CF http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/comment-page-1/#comment-8182 CF Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:15:41 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/#comment-8182 Charles - I wouldn't be so sure about that just yet. They may use procedures that don't have an impact on certain planes but they do on the Q400. We just don't know yet. Howard - Well, the climates aren't identical, but let's look at Copenhagen vs. Seattle. The temps are mostly similar although somewhat colder in <a href="http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N55E012+1102+06180W" rel="nofollow">CPH</a> than <a href="http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N47W122+1302+457473C" rel="nofollow">SEA</a> during the winter months. You're also looking at damp climates in both areas, though <a href="http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N47W122+2200+457473C" rel="nofollow">SEA</a> has more rain than <a href="http://www.worldclimate.com/cgi-bin/data.pl?ref=N55E012+2100+06180W" rel="nofollow">CPH</a>. Remember, these planes don't just go north, they go south into the Continent as a well, so they aren't just flying in the frozen tundra of northern Norway. But you're right, it could certainly have to do with the deicing fluid. We just don't know yet, and that's why this seems like a rash decision on the part of SAS. We do now know that this most recent incident is <a href="http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=11/2/2007" rel="nofollow">unrelated to the other ones</a>. By the way, that's a pretty broad statement saying that turboprops have icing issues. I don't recall the Dash 8 ever having icing problems. The Embraer 120 and certainly the ATR had issues, but that's related to icing inflight and isn't relevant here at all. Charles – I wouldn’t be so sure about that just yet. They may use procedures that don’t have an impact on certain planes but they do on the Q400. We just don’t know yet.

Howard – Well, the climates aren’t identical, but let’s look at Copenhagen vs. Seattle. The temps are mostly similar although somewhat colder in CPH than SEA during the winter months. You’re also looking at damp climates in both areas, though SEA has more rain than CPH.

Remember, these planes don’t just go north, they go south into the Continent as a well, so they aren’t just flying in the frozen tundra of northern Norway.

But you’re right, it could certainly have to do with the deicing fluid. We just don’t know yet, and that’s why this seems like a rash decision on the part of SAS. We do now know that this most recent incident is unrelated to the other ones.

By the way, that’s a pretty broad statement saying that turboprops have icing issues. I don’t recall the Dash 8 ever having icing problems. The Embraer 120 and certainly the ATR had issues, but that’s related to icing inflight and isn’t relevant here at all.

]]> By: Howard Berk http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/comment-page-1/#comment-8177 Howard Berk Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:44:54 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/#comment-8177 I live in the Pacific Northwest (PDX, to be exact) and I don't consider the climate here to be the least bit similar to Scandinavia. The local press here did report that Horizon did find rust on some of their aircraft, however. With the harsh climate in Scandinavia, I wonder if de-icing fluid might be a bit corrosive on the landing gear? Remember turbo-props have a history of icing issues and I have heard that de-icing fluid is some pretty strong stuff. I live in the Pacific Northwest (PDX, to be exact) and I don’t consider the climate here to be the least bit similar to Scandinavia.

The local press here did report that Horizon did find rust on some of their aircraft, however. With the harsh climate in Scandinavia, I wonder if de-icing fluid might be a bit corrosive on the landing gear? Remember turbo-props have a history of icing issues and I have heard that de-icing fluid is some pretty strong stuff.

]]> By: Charles Nobil http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/comment-page-1/#comment-8053 Charles Nobil Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:53:22 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/#comment-8053 If SAS had problems maintaining their planes then they would have problems with all their planes, not just the Q400. Scandanavia is not the only place that has had problems with landing gear of the Q400. We had problems in Toronto also, although no crashes yet. If SAS had problems maintaining their planes then they would have problems with all their planes, not just the Q400. Scandanavia is not the only place that has had problems with landing gear of the Q400. We had problems in Toronto also, although no crashes yet.

]]> By: Dr G. Mobile http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/comment-page-1/#comment-7952 Dr G. Mobile Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:11:18 +0000 http://crankyflier.com/2007/10/30/sas-dumps-the-q400-should-they-kiss-and-make-up/#comment-7952 I agree with you on this. It is a knee-jerk reaction. Those Scandinavians! They can take an ingeldorp, put it into a barteglugen and make a table but they seem to be having trouble when it comes to maintaining the landing gears on those Q-400s. And unlike at Ikea, I am pretty sure the manuals for Q-400s come with more than just pictures of how to put these pieces together to make a plane! I agree with you on this. It is a knee-jerk reaction.

Those Scandinavians! They can take an ingeldorp, put it into a barteglugen and make a table but they seem to be having trouble when it comes to maintaining the landing gears on those Q-400s. And unlike at Ikea, I am pretty sure the manuals for Q-400s come with more than just pictures of how to put these pieces together to make a plane!

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