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	<title>Comments on: JFK Sucks</title>
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	<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/</link>
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		<title>By: Easing Gridlock at New York City Airports, LaGuardia, JFK, Wall Street Journal Article, Scott McCartney &#187; Starkman &#38; Associates</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3888</link>
		<dc:creator>Easing Gridlock at New York City Airports, LaGuardia, JFK, Wall Street Journal Article, Scott McCartney &#187; Starkman &#38; Associates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3888</guid>
		<description>[...] have room for all of them. There&#8217;s simply no room at the inn&#8230; err&#8230; gates. My favorite airline blogger also offers some insightful commentary on this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have room for all of them. There&#8217;s simply no room at the inn&hellip; err&hellip; gates. My favorite airline blogger also offers some insightful commentary on this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: George Bolaris</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3591</link>
		<dc:creator>George Bolaris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3591</guid>
		<description>Wow so many comments about Chicago. 

Zach: I still cannot believe how MDW has transformed, and how fast this transformation actually occurred. If I were to be delayed at an airport, I&#039;d much rather be in Chicago than NYC--whatever airport. 

Mark: I agree about the relatively efficient trains, but I wish they got rid of the blue line slow zones sooner.... 

All--let&#039;s hope that the new runway configs will improve the ORD on-time experience... however mroe capacity woudl surely would lead to more flights and just as much delays and frustration in the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow so many comments about Chicago. </p>
<p>Zach: I still cannot believe how MDW has transformed, and how fast this transformation actually occurred. If I were to be delayed at an airport, I&#8217;d much rather be in Chicago than NYC&#8211;whatever airport. </p>
<p>Mark: I agree about the relatively efficient trains, but I wish they got rid of the blue line slow zones sooner&#8230;. </p>
<p>All&#8211;let&#8217;s hope that the new runway configs will improve the ORD on-time experience&#8230; however mroe capacity woudl surely would lead to more flights and just as much delays and frustration in the end.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3583</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3583</guid>
		<description>Being stuck with flying out of JFK most of the time, I coined the phrase &quot;Hour delays are the new on-time&quot;.  Of course, 2 hour delays are the norm from 5 - 9 pm.  Why on earth would anyone fly between JFK and BOS or DCA?  It&#039;s unbelievably ridiculous and frustrating.  And being that New York really sucks at having easy, affordable public transportation to its airports, just getting to the airport puts you in a bad mood.  Having lived in Chicago for many years, I can now fully appreciate the $2 train ride to both airports there.  New York has some serious problems that are going to lead to gridlock if something isn&#039;t done soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being stuck with flying out of JFK most of the time, I coined the phrase &#8220;Hour delays are the new on-time&#8221;.  Of course, 2 hour delays are the norm from 5 &#8211; 9 pm.  Why on earth would anyone fly between JFK and BOS or DCA?  It&#8217;s unbelievably ridiculous and frustrating.  And being that New York really sucks at having easy, affordable public transportation to its airports, just getting to the airport puts you in a bad mood.  Having lived in Chicago for many years, I can now fully appreciate the $2 train ride to both airports there.  New York has some serious problems that are going to lead to gridlock if something isn&#8217;t done soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Darkwater</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3564</link>
		<dc:creator>Darkwater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 03:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3564</guid>
		<description>Interestingly, you have Continental, in a roundabout way, to thank for DL&#039;s shuttle using the Marine Terminal.  As I remember it, when Texas Air bought Eastern, they had to divest the New York Air shuttle operation, which was bought by Pan Am.  Due to gate issues at the main terminal (PA couldn&#039;t assemble a large enough contiguous block of gates), PA refurbished the Marine Terminal.  The Pan Am Shuttle was one of the parts of PA that DL bought when PA went belly-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interestingly, you have Continental, in a roundabout way, to thank for DL&#8217;s shuttle using the Marine Terminal.  As I remember it, when Texas Air bought Eastern, they had to divest the New York Air shuttle operation, which was bought by Pan Am.  Due to gate issues at the main terminal (PA couldn&#8217;t assemble a large enough contiguous block of gates), PA refurbished the Marine Terminal.  The Pan Am Shuttle was one of the parts of PA that DL bought when PA went belly-up.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3562</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 03:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3562</guid>
		<description>ORD is bad, but not as monumentally awful as anything in the NY area.  Plus, I love what the city did with the Midway expansion (we have Southwest to thank).  Can you imagine how horrible ORD would be if Midway were either (a) the same airport it was 10 years ago or (b) non-existent, and we had to use Rockford, Milwaukee, or Gary as a secondary option?  Plus, I view transportation to the NYC-area airports as just as big an issue as the actual operational challenges they face.  

CF--interesting about the DL having always used the marine terminal at LGA.  I didn&#039;t realize that.  It is a beautiful building.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ORD is bad, but not as monumentally awful as anything in the NY area.  Plus, I love what the city did with the Midway expansion (we have Southwest to thank).  Can you imagine how horrible ORD would be if Midway were either (a) the same airport it was 10 years ago or (b) non-existent, and we had to use Rockford, Milwaukee, or Gary as a secondary option?  Plus, I view transportation to the NYC-area airports as just as big an issue as the actual operational challenges they face.  </p>
<p>CF&#8211;interesting about the DL having always used the marine terminal at LGA.  I didn&#8217;t realize that.  It is a beautiful building.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3549</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 19:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3549</guid>
		<description>Uncle Chucky won&#039;t allow the Feds to do anything that might impact Jetblue, so imposing a cap on operations at JFK would impact them pretty hard as the largest operator.

ORD sucked after slots were abolished as well, albeit not to this level. The difference is that when they (re)imposed the cap, AA and UA were more or less at parity.  With a lower level of animosity between the management of the two carriers, getting them both to the table wasn&#039;t as hard to accomplish.

That&#039;s not the case between DL and B6. Neither one of them is going to willingly come to the table.  The Feds will have to force the issue if anything is going to occur, and I just don&#039;t see that happening.

Plus, you have to remember that when slot controls expired at ORD, the terminal was still facility constrained, so the uptick in operations was a little more measured than what&#039;s happening at JFK, where facilities aren&#039;t as hard to come by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uncle Chucky won&#8217;t allow the Feds to do anything that might impact Jetblue, so imposing a cap on operations at JFK would impact them pretty hard as the largest operator.</p>
<p>ORD sucked after slots were abolished as well, albeit not to this level. The difference is that when they (re)imposed the cap, AA and UA were more or less at parity.  With a lower level of animosity between the management of the two carriers, getting them both to the table wasn&#8217;t as hard to accomplish.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not the case between DL and B6. Neither one of them is going to willingly come to the table.  The Feds will have to force the issue if anything is going to occur, and I just don&#8217;t see that happening.</p>
<p>Plus, you have to remember that when slot controls expired at ORD, the terminal was still facility constrained, so the uptick in operations was a little more measured than what&#8217;s happening at JFK, where facilities aren&#8217;t as hard to come by.</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3545</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 19:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3545</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Delta now has to fly its shuttle out of the marine terminal at LGA&lt;/blockquote&gt;
They&#039;ve done that for years, and I&#039;m pretty sure it&#039;s on purpose.  There&#039;s much less hassle for customers flying out of that historic terminal than the central terminal building.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I’d love to see them make White Plains Airport into a sort of second LaGuardia, but you never hear of this being seriously considered.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
They don&#039;t talk about it because, sadly, it won&#039;t happen.  They have the &quot;SNA Syndrome&quot; meaning that there are too many rich people around for realistic expansion to happen.   They&#039;re talking about Stewart/Newburgh as being the next big guy, but that&#039;s really far away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Delta now has to fly its shuttle out of the marine terminal at LGA</p></blockquote>
<p>They&#8217;ve done that for years, and I&#8217;m pretty sure it&#8217;s on purpose.  There&#8217;s much less hassle for customers flying out of that historic terminal than the central terminal building.</p>
<blockquote><p>I’d love to see them make White Plains Airport into a sort of second LaGuardia, but you never hear of this being seriously considered.</p></blockquote>
<p>They don&#8217;t talk about it because, sadly, it won&#8217;t happen.  They have the &#8220;SNA Syndrome&#8221; meaning that there are too many rich people around for realistic expansion to happen.   They&#8217;re talking about Stewart/Newburgh as being the next big guy, but that&#8217;s really far away.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3542</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3542</guid>
		<description>I lived in NY for a little over a year while in grad school.  Thankfully, I only had to fly out of JFK once, and I was blessed with no delay (my only other JFK experiences were connections in the pre-Jet Blue era, so I didn&#039;t have to worry about all of the road traffic, backed up check-in lines, and other garbage that goes along with a typical New York airport experience).  

During that 13-month stint, however, I probably flew ATA&#039;s LGA-MDW route at least 8 times and was frequently delayed, once sitting on the runway for over 4 hours.  

Personally, I think that NYC--not just JFK--really has an aviation crisis on its hands, because all three airports have reached their breaking points (Delta now has to fly its shuttle out of the marine terminal at LGA).  Newark is a possible exception, and its far-afield location makes it impractical, especially for short domestic flights (the train takes over an hour because of the impractical &quot;airtrain&quot; connection, and I have spent as much as 3 hours [and $75] in a taxi trying to get from Manhattan to Newark during rush hour).

Although a 4th airport seems unrealistic, I can&#039;t see any other way of truly solving this issue beyond signifacant expansion of the existing fields, and this would be impossible due to space constraints.  I&#039;d love to see them make White Plains Airport into a sort of second LaGuardia, but you never hear of this being seriously considered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lived in NY for a little over a year while in grad school.  Thankfully, I only had to fly out of JFK once, and I was blessed with no delay (my only other JFK experiences were connections in the pre-Jet Blue era, so I didn&#8217;t have to worry about all of the road traffic, backed up check-in lines, and other garbage that goes along with a typical New York airport experience).  </p>
<p>During that 13-month stint, however, I probably flew ATA&#8217;s LGA-MDW route at least 8 times and was frequently delayed, once sitting on the runway for over 4 hours.  </p>
<p>Personally, I think that NYC&#8211;not just JFK&#8211;really has an aviation crisis on its hands, because all three airports have reached their breaking points (Delta now has to fly its shuttle out of the marine terminal at LGA).  Newark is a possible exception, and its far-afield location makes it impractical, especially for short domestic flights (the train takes over an hour because of the impractical &#8220;airtrain&#8221; connection, and I have spent as much as 3 hours [and $75] in a taxi trying to get from Manhattan to Newark during rush hour).</p>
<p>Although a 4th airport seems unrealistic, I can&#8217;t see any other way of truly solving this issue beyond signifacant expansion of the existing fields, and this would be impossible due to space constraints.  I&#8217;d love to see them make White Plains Airport into a sort of second LaGuardia, but you never hear of this being seriously considered.</p>
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		<title>By: c</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3540</link>
		<dc:creator>c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 16:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3540</guid>
		<description>for the record: I have in fact spent close to an hour once sitting between -I believe- two runways at LAX once. it was on board a BA 747 from heathrow. we arrived early and our gate was still occupied. the pilots made it sound like it happened rather often but I&#039;ve never had to experience it again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>for the record: I have in fact spent close to an hour once sitting between -I believe- two runways at LAX once. it was on board a BA 747 from heathrow. we arrived early and our gate was still occupied. the pilots made it sound like it happened rather often but I&#8217;ve never had to experience it again.</p>
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		<title>By: CF</title>
		<link>http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/comment-page-1/#comment-3539</link>
		<dc:creator>CF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2007 15:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankyflier.com/2007/08/06/jfk-sucks/#comment-3539</guid>
		<description>I think swearing is quite appropriate in reference to JFK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think swearing is quite appropriate in reference to JFK.</p>
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